Joining the WooCommerce.com Team

Marcus: Hey everyone. Hey, Ronald. Good to be back at it with you here, but I think we’re going to do things a little bit differently today and put you in the guest seat. How does that sound?

Ronald: Sounds pretty good. I think that’s quite an honor to be here. I don’t know what episode we’re on, but it’s always nice to talk WooCommerce. So I’m happy to be here.

The WooCommerce journey

Marcus: Yeah. As folks may know, our show is about talking to people at Woo. And you recently joined the WooCommerce team, so that’s why we have you in the guest seat today. Before we get to talking a little bit about what you do at Woo, why don’t you tell folks a little bit about yourself. Maybe a little bit about your WordPress journey and how you came to work with WooCommerce the product itself?

Ronald: Sure. I started with Joomla maybe 10, 11, maybe 12 years ago. Doesn’t matter. And one of the things I realized missing was the e-commerce capability. And just as I was exploring some of those functionalities, I was offered a job as a web developer for a company that was working with WordPress. And I sort of got the idea, but I didn’t really know WordPress at all. I mean, it didn’t come natural to me to go into the admin and work out where everything was. So I totally binge watched videos on OSTraining. And I think people know OSTraining because we have Robbie there who’s one of the co-host who runs the company now. And it was Topher who did all these videos. And I met him a few years later or quite a few years later. I sort of explained the story and he was really quite chaff with that.

And thanks to him in a way and all those videos, his thorough videos, I got that job. And that was pretty much the start of my WordPress journey. But very early on WooCommerce was a really big part of that. I started with some clients that were selling with WooCommerce, so I had to dive in deep from the beginning to understand and how to solve problems. And previous to that, I was a business owner myself. So I could use all those different skills with design, with business coaching and using WooCommerce and that just felt really powerful. And then over the years, I just got better at it. I did a various WordCamp and meetup talks on the topic of WooCommerce, then found myself with a job at YITH, which is a WooCommerce plug in company. Did that for a few years and about four, five months ago, I joined a team at Automattic. So that’s pretty much my WooCommerce journey in a nutshell.

On being a partner marketer at Woo

Marcus: Yeah, that’s awesome. I feel like there’s similar story coming from different CMSs. I hear a lot. And then people just kind of fall in love with WordPress and in your case continuing on through e-commerce and all of that. So love to hear that. Congrats on the position at Woo. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about what you do, I have it here as partner marketer at WooCommerce. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about what that looks like?

Ronald: Yeah, so the marketing team is just under 30 people and it’s sort of split up in three parts. I’m one of the partner’s customer marketing. And part of that is the partnership marketing. So it’s three of us in the team and we work with all WooCommerce partners. We work with a bunch of them, maybe the larger ones that would like to showcase their products a bit more prominently to WooCommerce customers. And that’s fun. It’s all the sort of big companies that you can think of and to work with them, trying to understand what their products do, what services they offer and how to present that to the WooCommerce user is a very interesting journey.

And I had to dive in very deep to get to the bottom of that. Not only just all the partners how they work, but also WooCommerce, how Automattic operates and how to put all that together. And I still don’t feel I know everything and it’s been good four months. I’ve spoken to a few people that have been there for more than a year and they’re still figuring things out. And occasionally you find yourself knowing a bit more than your colleagues and that might feel good at that moment.

Marcus: Yeah. Do you feel like some of the client work that you’ve done before and your position at YITH kind of coincide or relate to what you do now a bit? How has that helped you with figuring out some of those things as a partner marketer?

Ronald: So compared to some of my colleagues, my journey into the position it’s been unique. So I have this perspective and the empathy for the user as a WooCommerce merchant or developer, implementer, whichever spin you want to take on it. Understanding what the struggles are and the problem they want to solve. And if you can empathize with the user and translate that into the marketing that you create and support the partner with that, I think that’s really powerful. And yeah, sort of that history is pretty much my angle that I bring to the team.

About any misconceptions

Marcus: That’s really great. I know that we often like to ask this question of the folks that we have on the show as well, just to kind of get a peek behind the curtain a little bit at WooCommerce. Is there maybe a misconception that you might have had about working at Automattic or WooCommerce beforehand, that you see a little bit differently or has been debunked for you now that you’re on the inside as it were?

Ronald: So I joined WooCommerce because WooCommerce has always been the goal for me. Having worked with WooCommerce over the years, having spoken with lots of folks at WooCommerce, I thought it was just the right fit for me with all the knowledge that I’ve gained over the years. And then as you sort of apply, you realize it’s part of a much bigger family, just the Automattic family. And that group of people, it’s just over 2000 now, they’re all experts in their own small niche. And somehow that huge group spread over almost a hundred countries speaking even more different languages and dialects, all come together and build these amazing things.

And as that sort of one person entering their journey and realizing how big that the company is, I have to phrase this real carefully, because it’s sort of powerful in a way that you can influence a lot of the open source stuff. I mean, WooCommerce of course is used by a lot of people, so is WordPress. So it’s one of the biggest contributors to WordPress. You find yourself in reading and learning a lot about that stuff, how people are operating, how people are thinking about it, how they’re planning towards it. And that can be a bit overwhelming to get all that information. But after a while you start to put that into place. And I think some might struggle with all that information to filter that what you actually need to know, but I really enjoy it. I feel like I’m in the center of the world of the universe and in the WordPress universe, because a lot of things are happening within Automattic that you can see that will have an effect in the longer term.

A level of decision-making of where a product goes

Marcus: Yeah. You would think maybe in a company that size and again, you’re more narrowed down to the WooCommerce side of things overall than overall Automattic, that it might be hard to feel like you have a voice. But I would imagine, especially with your position talking to partners, that you probably feel like you have some influence over the product itself and the direction and stuff. Do you feel that way in general or with your position specifically that you feel like you have the ability to kind of decide or help decide which direction the product goes?

Ronald: I think of two things, so one would be that yes I do. And I think everybody has, everybody has listened too, everybody has a voice and it doesn’t matter where you are in a position. Although there’s a hierarchy in responsibilities, I don’t feel there’s a hierarchy in level of knowledge. Everybody has their own expertise and everybody can contribute to that. It’s also the way that we operate with the asynchronous working style, posting on the P2 tool and everybody gets listened to. And I contribute to different departments that are maybe outside of the WooCommerce because I feel I can contribute something to that or add an opinion.

People ask me, “Well, because of your history, maybe you can advise on this or what’s your opinion.” And that feels really powerful. But at the same time, it is a big company. In the creed it clearly states we are in it to do a marathon, not a sprint. So coming from a small company or being self-employed, you can make decisions and implement it straight away. And as the corporation grows, it takes just a little bit more time than you’re used to. And that’s something I have to get into. Yeah, so I guess it’s a bit of both.

Marcus: It’s good to hear that everyone seemingly has a voice and is able to kind of help contribute to the direction of things and especially for you.

Ronald: Yeah. And everybody is so open to it as well. We have regular town halls for the different business units, but also Matt will have a regular monthly town hall. You can ask the question whenever you want. You can DM anybody you want. If I have something specific I want to ask Paul, he’s very open to it. And that’s nice. Although you maybe have a focus area, you can reach out to anything and anybody.

Marcus: Yeah. Have that access, that’s huge.

Thanks to our Pod Friends Mindsize and FooSales

Going all in on Woo from the beginning

You talked about it a little bit, but you spent let’s say at this point, the better part of your career working on Woo related things, what made you decide to go all in on WooCommerce from the beginning?

Ronald: I know it’s been said so many times, but you don’t need anything. You don’t need to invest other than a bit of your time to set something up and to be able to sell an item. It now sounds all like, “Well, of course, we all do that now post COVID.” But go back five, seven, eight years ago, that was quite something that somebody like me with a totally different background entering into the tech world, within a very short period of time could set up a store. And one of the earliest meetup presentations I did was from idea to sale in 30 minutes.

And it was literally a 30 minute presentation where I do a demo and set up. And so that really caught my inspiration. And since then supporting loads of different businesses. I must have set up at least 40 WooCommerce stores, some do million dollar plus. With all the challenges from scaling, from marketing, from administration and reports, you really feel that you’re building up on that knowledge.

AOf course, that’s an asset. Once you have that asset, you want to continue on that. So in the last couple of years, I’ve run the WooCommerce London Meetup. Again, it’s a platform and we did it on a weekly basis for a good year and a half throughout the COVID period. So you realize that became then a platform for users, for developers, for store owners to come together, share their pain points, share their problems, but also successes. Different companies that would say, “Hey, I’ve got this solution. Can I get some feedback?” “Sure. Let’s do a demo.”

And I use that as a way to enhance my own knowledge, my experience but also support others. And that’s been really very much of a fun part. Only a couple of weeks ago we did a first in since maybe 20017, every life, a meetup in London and a meeting about 50 of the regulars that I’ve only met online, has been a nice pinnacle of that journey.

Marcus: Yeah. A hundred percent agree with all of that. I’m just going to tag onto your answer about just how I feel about WooCommerce and stuff too. I’ve always loved that. It’s kind of the platform for everyone. So no matter where you are in the site building hierarchy, I guess, there’s WooCommerce for you. There’s a lot of talk about no code, low code development. And WooCommerce has always had the flexibility to kind of cater to all of those. Like you said, you can get a store up and running with no code in 30 minutes. And then there, you can just kind of continue to build on top of that, it’s always been the biggest selling point for me, has always been that flexibility and the ability to kind of build whatever you want on top of that.

Ronald: And sometimes maybe it is a bit of an overkill. I’ve set up sites where it’s just a simple product or a service to purchase and you might not need all the stock availability and post its sending, but it’s just so easy. And if it runs and it runs fast, yeah, you can ignore some of that. But you actually have a commerce side that allows somebody to sell a product, a time slot or where there was a pizza night once a month.

Anticipating what is around the corner

Marcus: Absolutely. So having said that WordPress power is some 40% plus of the web and WooCommerce is on maybe about 25% or so of those and growing. Given that type of global coverage, what are some things that you’d like to see coming from Woo in the coming months and years? And maybe you have some insight on what partners are looking for as well, given your position.

Ronald: I think the, maybe not simple stores, but stores that sell, that ship something that’s very well covered by commerce platforms. But the part of setting up a store to sell services and whether you’re a web developer and you provide a service or package or a bundle I think, there are lots more opportunities within WooCommerce to advance that and make use of the way that we do business now. We use QR codes, we use contact lists. Apple pay is soon to launch, a phone to phone ability to pay for services. So if WooCommerce can continue that journey of being innovative and using that open source where others can contribute to that, I think WooCommerce has a really bright future.

It’s maybe the part that I’ve taken on from Automattic, it’s for the long haul. We are in a marathon and we are sometimes too much focused on the short term statistics, the trends that we’ve seen over COVID. And then now we’re sort of, let’s say post COVID period where we see maybe sort of a stagnation of the uptake of WooCommerce and WordPress. But look again long term, maybe five years or 10 years time, and how envisage that we will do business with each other then. And again, there are so many companies, local stores, B2Bs that don’t have an online presence where you can’t go to and say, this is what I need, I can pay or pay a deposit or pay when it gets delivered. Still lots of things are done in a manual way. So I see lots of scope in that for the next few years.

Marcus: For sure. It’s hard to imagine many stores of any kind of size anyways not having at least an online presence, if not an online store at this point, two, three years into a global pandemic. But certainly they’re out there and looking to find, I would imagine the easiest route into being able to do some of that and WooCommerce sure ticks a lot of boxes.

Ronald: Yeah, WooCommerce has a base. So you’re on own your own data, all the things that we’ve said so many times. But social commerce, omnichannel, to always have WooCommerce as your, this is what I own, this is where I keep track of everything, this is where everything is happening. It’s the core of doing your business. And if you say, I’m going to sell on social media, well pick even five of the extra popular platforms, you really struggle to do it all in an orchestrated way, without some sort of base where everything comes from or orders come in or customer data is kept.

IRL events, Meetups and WordCamps

Marcus: Yep. Let’s see, we’ve talked a lot about sort of online stuff and let’s talk about being together in person. So you were at WordCamp Europe as was I and we got to meet in person there briefly, which was great. The question for you, will you be attending other camps or meetups in the coming months? You briefly mentioned maybe London meetup is something that you’ve been doing?

Ronald: So the London meetup will happen at least once a quarter. I really want to keep that up. I am planning on attending WordCamp US and hopefully some other local WordCamps. But they starting off very carefully. It’s not what it used to be three years ago.

Marcus: I mean, I just scored one of those elusive WordCamp US tickets. I’m glad to hear that. I’ll be there as well, so we’ll get to hang out a bit.

Ronald: Absolutely. Yeah. I did feel that WordCamp Europe was huge. And although I saw you, and there are so many people that I noticed on social media that they’ve attended or there’s some sort of hint where you can see a photo or the water bottle in the backdrop, I don’t think I saw you there at all. It’s just way too big. So hopefully WordCamp US is a bit more intimate where you feel like, “Okay, I’ve spoken to everybody I wanted to speak to for a bit longer than a quick wave.”

Marcus: I felt the same. I had a list of folks that I wanted to get a chance to meet in person finally, because we’ve been doing this online for so long that I’ve got a list of folks that I’ve talked to maybe even weekly, that I’ve just never met in person. And I was there for a week and still didn’t manage to make it happen, to meet the entire list.

Ronald: Yeah. But this time it’ll be me with the jet lag going to the other side.

Marcus: Go in the other direction.

Ronald: Yeah.

Marcus: For sure. No, I’m excited for that. And for sort of camps in general coming back up, do you know if there are any other WooCommerce specific camps, I know there’s one in Phoenix.

Ronald: There’s a lot of talk afterward camp Europe, and sort of an ask whether WooCommerce would do another WooConf of some sort. I don’t think there’s anything in the pipeline. Well, there’s nothing really discussed on that length. But I do feel that after WordCamp Europe, there is that hunger again, to get together and meet up. So I’m hoping that the WooCommerce London Meetup, which hosted about 50 people, that’ll be a good example blueprint for others to use and start small again and then build that up with a good local following.

Marcus: And at EU, we had Bob set up his stuff and recorded a number of do the Woo episodes out of EU. We’ll have to check with Bob and see if he’s doing something similar at US as well.

Ronald: That would be amazing. But on the other hand, I don’t mind if he doesn’t, because it’s always good to actually just catch up and use the time to meet and have a beer.

Aside from Woo, there is sailing

Marcus: Yeah. To be part of the conference instead of just being glued to the station the whole time, I agree. Before we wrap this up a little bit, your Twitter bio says that you enjoy sailing in family adventures. I assume there’s a bit of an overlap there as well. I’m curious to hear what your perfect day on the water looks like. Do you have a sailboat?

Ronald: No. Unfortunately not yet. I’d love to. And I only recently, I found out that Starlink is now available in a sort of a Marine version. So you could actually own a boat and sail, especially around the Mediterranean that’s really good coverage. This is by no means a plug for that Starlink. But yeah, that would be the ultimate goal, is to be able to go off grid for a length of time. Family is busy, they can go out and explore the coves and caves and do a bit of fishing and we are connected and hopefully get a barbecue on there. That would be my ideal. But yeah, that’s a goal I have to work towards and is not quite there yet.

Marcus: Nice. When you sail, do you sail for multiple days at a time usually or is it a day trip?

Ronald: So I started only last year. I’ve done some sailing in the past, but it was a project throughout COVID, I thought life is too short. Let’s just take the plane. So I took two separate weeks where I learned to sail, skipper yachting. And then in a couple of weeks time, we’ll be on our third sailing trip where we go take a charter boat for two weeks. And this time we’ll be sailing the French Coast. So I expect we’ll stop for a lot of French cheese and baguettes that we’ll take on board and indulge yourselves on.

Marcus: Oh, man, that sounds amazing. I’m in Florida. So I’m around water all the time. I love getting in and near the water anytime I possibly can. But we don’t have anything that looks like the French Coast.

Ronald: Well, let’s make it a goal. We’ll meet and we’ll have our party on a boat sometime. And let’s make that work.

Marcus: I agree a hundred percent. Thanks so much. We’ll wrap it up there. I look forward to talking to you of course. More every month with the show and hearing more about the stuff that you’re doing with Woo and all of the partners and all of that.

Ronald: Yeah. Let’s continue.

Marcus: A great chat. Thanks so much.

Ronald: It’s been great talking to you. Yeah. All the best to everybody and speak to you next time.