WooCommerce Subscriptions

Brad:
Welcome back to another episode of Do the Woo, episode 14. As a matter of fact, I am one half of your duo today, Brad, and I’m joined by the infamous Mr. BobWP. Bob, what’s going on?

BobWP:
Hey, not much. Same old stuff doing the woo on this particular day, but yeah, yeah, keeping busy. We actually have some decent weather around here, so I am enjoying

Brad:
That. Spring’s coming. Spring’s coming. Hopefully it’s getting a little bit nicer for everybody out there. So this is a show all about WooCommerce and of course e-commerce, which is the underlying topic there. We dig into a lot of news each week. We’d like to bring on a special guest and talk about the world of e-commerce and specifically WooCommerce. This week we have a very cool guest, a guy I’ve known for a number of years, even though we haven’t seen each other in person for a while, about to fix that, but I’m excited to have him on Daniel Espinoza. Daniel, how’s it going, man?

Daniel:
It’s going great, guys. I’m glad to be on the show. Thanks.

Brad:
Yeah, we’re super excited to have you. So Daniel, why don’t you give everybody the quick elevator pitch, who you are, what you do, and how is that related to Woo arrived?

Daniel:
So I have two companies and I just say that to impress my kids, so don’t be too impressed by that. They like it and probably nobody else cares, but so the first company has been around the longest is Grow Development, and it’s a small agency, myself and a couple of contractors, and we focus on WooCommerce subscription sites. So we don’t build them, but we help customers who have reached sort of around a million plus of a RR to keep their site running, help them tweak functionality, add functionality, and sort of identify any bottlenecks that customers are having. So this has come after several years of starting off as sort of a WordPress freelancer, Jack of All trades, and figuring out that drives me insane, having to context switch between doing a theme build out to having to debug an API, and it’s not really what I liked doing.
So focusing on WooCommerce since it got started, I guess in 2011, building plugins for it, working for Woo themes for a little while, but then going back independent and I just like helping customers who are selling on Woo. So that’s what Grow Development focuses on now. And then the other company is Shop Plugins, which is a plugin marketplace where I sell my own plugins that we’ve built and one other developer selling there. And so those are more of an off the shelf plugin solutions for customers who are selling with Woo. We used to sell EDD plugins, but got out of that about a year, year and a half ago just to focus on WooCommerce, just to keep one single code base in my head, having to keep up with updates and changes and idiosyncrasies of multiple e-commerce plugins was getting to be again, too much and just niching down onto one code base and really helped on both sides on the consulting side and also on the plugin side. So yeah, those are the two things I focus on, and recently it’s just been focusing on avoiding seeing Brad Williams in person, which it’s going swimmingly really.

Brad:
You’re doing great, man. That’s cool, man. Yeah, it’s definitely a lot to kind of dig into here, obviously on the kind of client services slash consulting side and then the product side. First question, how do I get to a million dollars in recurring revenue? I would like to do that. That sounds like a really good place to be. Is there just a one-liner, how can I get there? How do I make a million dollars in box

Daniel:
Of the month club

Brad:
Box of the month? That’s a hot business right now. You can get everything in the box of the month club, can’t you? It’s

Daniel:
Just several of the clients that we help have, they sell, use WooCommerce subscriptions to sell monthly recurring items, either candy, deodorant, coffee, digital items. So just that recurring subscription revenue is just so easy. Okay, if you could just strike that. It’s not easy. It’s never easy, but it’s something that if you can focus on recurring customers instead of each month pulling in new customers, it’s much more simpler and focused than a business model. So they know that they have customers queued up that they’re recurring every month and they can focus on reducing churn and keeping people happy and not having, and then getting more people to sign up. So that’s really where most of these companies have come to their success is having something that recurs every month that people like getting. I think it’s tomorrow I’m getting my box of candy from one of my clients and I look forward to it every month.

Brad:
Yeah, it’s a cool model. It’s one of those, you mentioned kind of new clients first existing, and that’s, well, if you ever dig into this stuff, or even at a basic level of watching Shark Tank or something, one of the questions they always ask is what’s the cost per client acquisition? Because such an important number, and a lot of these, especially startups, it’s very, very high because they have to spend so much money getting the word out that they even exist, right? Through ads, online ads, Facebook, whatever, that it might be like $80 to acquire a new customer, but the existing customer, if you keep that renewal, that retention rate up 80% renewals or whatever, then over time that cost per acquisition should drop dramatically or else you have a big problem, right? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, interesting point there.

BobWP:
Yeah, and I was thinking with the recurring, I’m imagining since you work with a lot of ’em that most of them are, I don’t want to say boring products, but very standard products versus very creative and exciting products because like you said, candy, you’re getting candy or Candy excites me, Bob. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean we’re not talking about Brett, we’re talking about normal people, but I mean you’re looking at toothpaste or whatever. I remember talking to Brett who actually does a subscription plugin saying one of the big ones was somebody that had a toothpaste site, I think it was, and toothbrushes and the stuff you essentially need all the time. So are you seeing more on that side of things and people trying to get real creative and saying, oh, let me put in this quirky product, and everybody’s saying, why in the world would I want that every month?

Daniel:
Yeah, well, I think if you’re competing with a product that’s a staple, then you have to put sort of a story or a spin on it. The coffee stuff, those usually come with their own story or sort of origin and how they’re produced, the production of them, and then the taste and the flavor, that type of thing, and the toothpaste or the deodorant or the razors. Then you have to differentiate your brand to all the ones that are lining that aisle at the grocery store and have a way to stay in front of mind of people through social media or through your advertising or through anything that you’re partnering with for charities or things like that. So I think that the staple stuff is good to the story. Part of that is good to get a customer’s attention, and then once they sign up for your product every couple of months, then they usually get a little comfortable with just having that recurring charge and knowing that they’re going to have that product sent to them when they need it.

Brad:
Yeah, actually, I’m on a subscription for a toothbrush called Quip. I don’t know if you’ve heard of this Quip, the Quip Brush. One of my friends got it online, was talking about it looked interesting. It’s a toothbrush that vibrates or whatever, but it’s not like the full blown a hundred dollars whatever contraption. It’s kind of somewhere in the middle. But the recurring part of it, I was actually really interesting. I liked because every three months a new head shows up, and I think that’s one of those things where you know, should replace your toothbrush every three months, but nobody really does. You don’t replace it until it’s flat and you’ve had it for a year and you’re like, yeah, this probably needs to go. So it’s like it shows up and I’m like, yeah, this is what I should be doing. I should have a new toothbrush head every three months and it takes one less thing off my plate that I need to worry about.
It just shows, like you said, Bob, it’s like a necessity item. I think that is getting much more comfortable for consumers to get behind, especially with companies like Amazon having subscribe and save. I don’t know if you guys do that, but we have a subscribe and save box that shows up every month, and especially having this made a lot of sense when my son was still in diapers, it was like diapers, wipes, all that stuff that you need with the baby just every month like clockwork, and then you get some discounts by doing that, so you don’t have to think about it. You just always have diapers coming because you need freaking diapers. So I love it. I love the subscription stuff, boxes.

Daniel:
Implementing a discount for or a subscribe and save or a subscribe and get the percentage off is something we implement often because people seeing that discount and it’s something that’s easy to offer when you know that people are going to be renewing month after

Brad:
Month, and once they buy into it with the toothbrush that I have, I got it and I tried it for three months. I was like, this is great. So then I went ahead and just prepaid for the year, get the discount. I know I’m going to get a new toothbrush head every three months. So basically four heads throughout the year and they also send you a new battery along with that. So it’s like once I determined I liked it, I want to stick with it, then I was able to make that larger investment, save a few bucks and I’m set. So it’s really cool to hear that you’re doing, I think this is maybe just bias or basically what I hear, but I think when you think, well commerce and subscriptions, you’re not thinking stuff like this, at least I’m not, I’m thinking digital goods or a membership site to access maybe training or things like that. It doesn’t occur to me at first discussion of it about physical subscriptions, a physical box of something showing up, but obviously there’s no reason you couldn’t doing it. So it’s obviously a great platform for that. Do you run into any challenges with, I mean I’m sure there’s always the normal challenges, but anything maybe out of the ordinary with WooCommerce and subscriptions when it comes to physical versus digital?

Daniel:
Yeah, some of the challenges that we’ve had, WooCommerce subscriptions does a really great job at the pitch down the middle strike zone delivery of customers want this item for this frequency at this price. They do a really good job at that and they have a couple of variations on that. Where it gets interesting is where it’s a different path that a customer wants to take or if they want to give power to their consumer, to their customer. And that’s where a couple of the plugins we created for shop plugins came out of. They were birthed out of client projects that they wanted some more control over how their subscriptions were managed and giving some control over to their customers. So the use cases aren’t something that subscriptions the main plugin is going to bring into the core code because it’s a small subset of the larger subscriptions user base.
But we found that adding those to a feature plugin has really done well. It’s been popular, a popular seller, and so we call that one toolbox for subscriptions, and I built that on a project with Gabor Jaworski, and that’s the plugin he sells on shop plugins. And so it adds some of the features that store owners want to give over to their customers, the ability to skip a month. So if you really neglected your teeth health and your dental health for half a year and you didn’t brush at all, and you have these two extra heads sitting there and it comes around to January and you get your renewal reminder email that says, Hey, we’re going to charge you for another year, you could use our toolbox plugin to say, now let’s push that out a month. Let’s push that out three months because I know I should be brushing and thanks for the reminder, my wife’s really been upset with how my teeth are looking, so I’m going to start using these heads that I already have. So the ability to push out a schedule or to skip a renewal or to change up the frequency to say, now I want subscriptions to renew on just these set number of days, let’s define a renewal path that way instead of the sort of a set every month on the day that they purchase.

Brad:
Yeah, love that. And that’s pretty common functionality with subscription boxes. I can think of the ones we subscribed to and I think most if not all have that option to skip or maybe to pause for a period of time and then re-enable at some point. But that’s really cool. And I love the idea of, like you said, this kind of stemmed from client work and you basically solve the client problem, but we’re able to do it in a way that you could take this product to market. I’m curious, when you brought that to the client, is that how you pitched it of saying, Hey, we’re going to build this for you, but we’re also going to release it and sell it? Is it something you just ended up doing behind the scenes? I’m just for my own curiosity, I’m curious. It’s a win-win, right? You build something for a client assuming you got paid for it, and then you’re able to release it for the masses and charge for it as well. So it’s a beautiful thing when that happens. So I’m curious how you generally work those deals with your clients.

Daniel:
Yep. I think we’ve done it both ways where one of them we developed and said, we’re going to generalize this because the code that we built was very specific to the client’s project and to integrate in their current site, and it took some extra work to be generalized to work for any site. So we definitely let them know that that would happen. And then we also had another, the other, the latest subscription schedule plugin was built for a client, but then it had to be changed quite a bit and it was maybe a year later that we changed it, and then I did all the testing and prep to make it a commercial plugin. So that wasn’t necessarily part of the client project, but especially with the toolbox one, when you answer or when you answer the same question twice and then three times for different clients, you see, yeah, there’s a need for this and there’s probably other people who will want it, so it’ll work either way.
Usually most clients don’t care. They’re like, yeah, we want this now, it doesn’t exist. It’s valuable for enough for us to pay for it, and we understand how open source works and we’re paying you for your expertise and the value that this code’s bringing, and we don’t really care what you’re doing with the plugin afterwards. And also, I’ll usually throw in a lifetime license if it applies, if it’s not a lot of customization, so they can just use the updated plugin in the future if they want it. So like you said, it’s a win-win. They get updates and some level of support with the plugin going forward even after the project ends.

Brad:
Yeah, I think that’s the best approach and pretty much how we’ve done over the years at web dev where if we’re going down that road, we basically say, look, you’re essentially funding this. It’s for your site, we’d like to take it to market, and the value that you get by us doing that is that we’re going to make sure this plugin works indefinitely. So you won’t have to keep coming back to us in a year or so and say, Hey, we need to update it because missing some new features with WordPress, whatever, we’re already going to be doing that. We have to do it to continue to sell it, right? So it is a win-win even for the clients. So it’s super cool. I have one last question on the products. So for the last few years, well, I’ve preached for a while about how the commercial side of plugins, there was a lot of opportunities versus where themes were at.
Themes have been saturated for a long time where plugins weren’t. However, in recent in the last year or two, it’s really kind of gotten to that point where I feel like plugins are saturated. There’s just a lot of options for anything you want to do. And I’m curious, obviously you’re kind of focused on this niche of WooCommerce and building premium products for WooCommerce. Do you feel like there’s still a market there for some additional plugins if people are looking to dip their toe or get into this market? Do you feel like it is becoming saturated as well? What’s your thoughts around that?

Daniel:
So I think if someone were thinking about launching a plugin shop in the current sense that we know of it, it’s a single purchase year license support type of thing, purchase price between whatever. We won’t talk about Code Canyon prices because they suck, but maybe 50 bucks, 200 bucks for plugin. I think that they really, it’s possible to do that and to get that plugin shop running fairly quickly. But the challenge is going to be on sort of the same thing we were talking about earlier about branding and getting people to know that you exist. You’re going to have to probably spend some money or do some serious content marketing or work with great affiliates like Bob WP to get the word out on your product. I think you could definitely ship a product and be successful with it. But we launched shop plugins in February of 2015 and over the next 12 months we got pretty crappy sales.
And then there was a certain point where I feel like the content marketing and just Google knowing about us just really kicked in and then the sales took off after that get started. Now don’t wait. If you’re thinking about haunting a plugin marketplace, but really just and then provide something that’s going to work well and go for integration with other plugins. So many people who get in touch with me that say, I bought this plugin but it didn’t well with work, well this other plugin and most plugin shops, especially like woocommerce.com, have policies about third party plugins working together and they’ll go to a certain length to make sure that they’re integrated well. But someone’s always going to come to you and say, it doesn’t work with this plugin that I found, because so many people are launching plugin shops and so just have work towards compatibility and keeping good WordPress standards, WooCommerce coding standards, but just know that you’re going to have people who have X plugin or X custom code it’s not going to work with, and if you can make those people happy, then you’ll have clients coming back to you.

BobWP:
Yeah, I can definitely back that up because as he said, and I get these emails all the time, people coming out with e-commerce plugins, specifically WooCommerce, and yeah, it’s amazing many, I mean, they’ve got the plugin development side of it down, but like Daniel said, you do have to brand yourself or have some kind of brand and just reaching out randomly and asking people, Hey, here we are. Look at this. Will you sign up to be an affiliate? Will you do a post on it? It’s amazing. It’s a tough market. I think I see it from the other side, especially like I said, through all the emails I’m getting, but I’m very, I talk a lot about WooCommerce products on the site, and I’m very particular on who I share stuff. The developers I share the ones that I’ve known for a long time, and I’m sure there’s a lot of good stuff out there and it is seeing some of the same stuff coming out with maybe a little bit of a different twist, but I think a lot of ’em are just, some of them seem to be just wanting to beat the price.
They think, okay, I’m going to create something similar to X, x, X, but I’m going to probably charge half the price. And that raises a lot of flags for me, and I’m sure it does for some other people. But yeah, it’s interesting that whole market, and I am definitely involved in it a lot, but not in the sense of from either one of your side, the development side or the marketing side. I’m just looking at what people are trying to do out there. And it’s like I said, Daniel said, you’re going to do it. You better get in there and you better have some people behind you that know you already to help you get the word out because that’ll build it and they certainly won’t come.

Brad:
Yeah, I mean it’s as much about having a good reputation and solid products. And the other side of it is, like you mentioned, having a niche. It’s what I recommend. If people are trying to get into Word just client services, just to say you build WordPress websites, there’s a lot of companies out there that build WordPress websites, but if you have a specific niche, I build WooCommerce sites, I build online stores, I build sites only for churches or whatever, one, it just makes the marketing so much, well, it makes it easier. I wouldn’t say so much easier. It makes it easier. You have a more specific message than just I build WordPress sites. It’s like that’s a very hard message to market. And I think what we’re seeing here with Daniel and his products are saying he’s kind of drilled down into some specific niches that help that marketing angle to be a little more pointed than just saying, we do WooCommerce. Yes, you do do that, but you also specialize in certain parts of WooCommerce maybe more than others, which can help something to consider if you’re looking to get into this or just stay out and let everybody go and buy Daniel. Yeah, really.
Well, speaking of,

BobWP:
Oh, go ahead Daniel.

Daniel:
I was going to say, and adding sort of the stipulation to my clients saying, you need to be a certain revenue number to not necessarily to afford our services, but really to make best use of it, you’re not going to run an optimization test on a site that launched yesterday. You’re just not getting the traffic. It’s going to make that test worthwhile. Maybe that’s not a best example, but the speed optimizations and the functionality additions and some of the things that we’ve worked with customers on aren’t money well spent for a site that just started. I worked with a client last quarter that started doing some stuff and we started doing some tasks and did some of the normal workflow that we do with other clients, and they raised a flag sort of saying, we’re we’re cash strapped. We’re a startup where let’s focus on just a couple of things. And we ended up parting ways, just more amicably just saying, get back to us once. You really need to be spending your money on the marketing side, on you’re acquiring customers, but you need to acquire more and you have everything set up on your site to serve those customers well. Things later down the road, fulfillment center integrations and stuff, you can do that later when you have more of a cashflow. So that was a hard thing to say to somebody or somebody who comes along and says, we want a WooCommerce site built.
I haven’t priced one of those out in so long that it’s not really something I’m interested in. So I have folks that refer that out to, but on one side, it helps define the type of clients that we take on. But on the other side, it is a little scary telling somebody no, but at the end of the day, it feels good serving clients that you’re well suited to do to.

Brad:
Yeah, it proves you’re not just in it for the dollar. You actually want to help people, which if someone told that to me, I would really respect the fact they told that to me because rather than just taking my money and not necessarily caring, you want to make sure that the money is well spent, that they’re going to see results, and if it’s not going to be a good fit based on your experience and everything, being upfront about that is the classiest thing you could really do. So they won’t forget that doing right by people. And I’m a big believer in karma and all that good stuff. I think if you do right by people, it will come back. So maybe it’s six months, maybe it’s a year, maybe it’s a couple of years down the road, maybe they come back directly, maybe they just send someone your way. But this definitely speaks to your character and I know people respect that.

BobWP:
Exactly. Well, I wanted to segue just into this because it’s very appropriate is, and it’s been I think over a month, the release of 2.5, the subscription extension update, and I know there was a few improvements on that. And just to touch on that briefly, first I want to ask Daniel if there was something there that just jumped out at you and you said, oh, finally, or Thank you. Thank you, Brett.

Daniel:
Yeah, the latest 2.5, we have a couple of stores on that now and we think we shipped that before it was released on a couple of stores. But the reactivate pending cancellation is something that some people have been asking for because once subscription goes into cancellation mode, it was just a pain to have to create a new subscription for the customer to get them back. And it’s a customer service issue too. You have to have someone, an administrator available to reactivate that or to create a new subscription. So stuff that helps, again, letting the customer have a self-service type option and then not involve your customer support folks and bog them down. It’s really good to put that into the software and get that out of the customer services hands.

BobWP:
And that’s one of the things that stood out to me was that cancellation one. And I see that they said their biggest feature to change was not making a payment method required to actually sign up and stuff, which I guess I hadn’t been using it enough lately to realize that was not an option. It probably had to do a workaround, but that you can actually have allowing a $0 initial checkouts. So is that something that guess I can think of a lot of scenarios, but obviously you want people sometimes to sign up and maybe start their subscription later or maybe do the free trials and it just wasn’t quite as fluent as it was or not as easy to do as it is now is another one that seems pretty prominent.

Daniel:
It’s another step toward letting customers or reducing the friction to checkout and letting customers use your product before entering a card in and then proving your value, proving your worth to customers based on what you’re delivering. And then later on they can add in the card and there’s a lot of discussion that goes around. And it also depends on your price point because a discussion about in sort of some of the SaaS podcasts and world about that, charging the initial card, if you’re at a certain price point that’s over a number that requires a manager’s approval, then you’re not going to get the sale because they’re not going to go through that process. But if you’re a point below that, you can let customers check out and try your product and then they’ll get excited and onboard with it and then they’ll go and get that manager’s approval. So this is probably a step toward reducing that checkout friction and letting people try your service and becoming a existing customer that you’re serving instead of a mist or a cart that has been abandoned and that you’re trying to reactivate.

BobWP:
Cool. Well, there’s a few others. I’ll put a link in. I’m sure a lot of people have already seen this and gone through a lot of them, but I like the Autorenew toggle. I was reading this through where you can toggle it off and on the autorenew and they said the customer can now be as flighty as they wish. I thought that was a great way to word it.

Brad:
I think the idea of just getting more control in the customer’s hands is a good thing. Hopefully it’ll reduce support requests, emails, manually updating things on the store side. So yeah, anytime you give the customer the ability to make the changes they want, especially around payment, that’s important, that’s the one thing you want them to have, you want them to be comfortable with and have all the options that they would ever want so that you can get paid.

BobWP:
Let’s see, one more thing, I think we have time for real quick, 3.6 0.0. WooCommerce beta came out. They say it’s nothing major, but at the same time, I think they’re moving all the blocks into core, so you won’t have to add that block plugin anymore. So I guess that would be maybe another whole discussion sometime down the road is how do blocks play into subscriptions or do they play in at all? I don’t really see them any more than just being able to add content to your posts and pages and moving on. But anyway, that’s another little bit in the news. Had another article I was going to have us talk about, but I don’t think it’s really, was there something, it was another one of the forecast on e-commerce. What’s going on? Let’s see, who was this by? This was by Shoptalk. Anything that strike you? Brad, did you highlight anything there that was real exciting?

Brad:
Yeah, I highlighted a couple. I thought the article was interesting. Like you said, it came from shoptalk and it’s highlighting what these kind of retailers, Macy’s, some things they’re doing in the online world a little differently than they are in their brick and mortar stores, which is an interesting topic. I think we all know that a lot of the brick and mortar stores and even Macy’s is getting slaughtered eventually by Amazon and Target and some of these other ones that have really figured out online much quicker than some of these ones that I think were a little bit slow. So one thing that stood out is how Macy’s, they mentioned that they found their customers like to shop online for fragrances by scent, but inside the stores the categories are arranged by brand. So they’re starting to, and obviously they probably have just, I can’t even imagine the massive amounts of data they have to go through and analyze, but this is good.
They’re starting to figure out what the differences in how their online shoppers want to shop. And I think, my guess is just even based on that sentence is prior to or when they first started their online, they probably tried to make the online experience as close to the retail experience as possible, which it’s not a one-to-one. So getting smart about saying, okay, online shopping’s completely different. Let’s figure out what our online shoppers want to do, forget what they do at the store. Let’s figure out what our online shoppers want to do or how they want to navigate, how they want to filter products, how they want to test products. The other one I mentions, augmented reality, which we’ve been hearing for years about how this is a huge game changer. And in some ways I think it will be essentially they’re using augmented reality to do things like trying endless shades of lipstick through their app and with the idea of, I’m not an expert on lipstick, but obviously if you’re don’t tell you some short going to try on lipstick, it would be, I would assume it’s a daunting process to try on 20 different colors or shades to get the right one.
We’re using augmented reality, they’re realizing that virtually their customers can try on all this stuff and then narrow it down to say, okay, here’s the two or three I want to physically try on. So it makes a better experience using the online tool makes a better experience at the store. So that type of stuff is pretty cool. And I think companies like Macy’s, they have to do this, right? They have to and they have to figure it out quickly because their online stuff isn’t doing as well as it probably should be, and it’s hurting them. But it’s cool to see ’em take hold of this new technology.

Daniel:
Yeah. Cool. Well, I’ll put a link. I’m ready for Apple glasses whenever they ship.

Brad:
Yeah, yeah. I mean we go about augmented reality and AI for a long time. I really, I agree. I think yes, it is a buzzword and it has been for years, but I do see the value of where that could be. You’re right when it’s more easily accessible, the idea of a Google contact that you put in your eye is not farfetched at all and they even have filed for a patent around it. So being able to have this stuff front and center and not just have to hold a phone or whatever will change the game a little bit.

BobWP:
Yeah. Yeah. I read a lot of books, a lot of fiction, and I read a lot of thrillers and a lot of that is around augmentation stuff. I just read one about somebody creating something that could, what was it? Tell if you were lying or not or if it was a, you were kind of working around a lie. Anyway, very interesting book. But yeah, something gets pretty weird.

Brad:
The Future is here.

BobWP:
Yeah. Yep. But anyway. Well, very cool. I think we covered pretty much everything we wanted to cover and I’m really glad now that Daniel knows that you’ve got those toothbrush coming every few months, so maybe he’ll be more willing to meet with you in person soon now that he knows. Your hygiene is on the utmost here.

Brad:
Yes, my teeth are good. I can promise you it’s cool. I mean, quick check it out. It’s not an affiliate or anything, I just like the product, so it’s a cool service.

BobWP:
Excellent. And Daniel, really you coming on, it’s always great chatting with you. I know we’ve chatted on other podcasts and glad we were able to get you on here and have Brad give you the drill. You got to go through the Brad drill here. Glad to be here. Thanks. All right, well you can always subscribe usual places. I’m going to be adding a few more neglected buttons to subscribe, but you can connect with us and we come out a couple times a month when these days, Brad and I might actually decide to do it every day, but we are kind of holding off on that for a while. So until what, two Thursdays from today I guess. Hang in there and do the woo. Thanks everyone. See y’all.

Brad:
Bye.