WooCommerce Performance Optimization

Uros:
My name is Uros Tasic. I’m from Serbia. I’m a WooCommerce developer. I work for the Norwegian company called Maksimer, and the current role is Tech Lead and with me today is Sabrina, so she will introduce herself.

Sabrina:
Hi Uros. Hi everyone. Who is listening to us today? Thank you for joining us. My name is Sabrina Zeidan. I’m a WordPress performance engineer. I speed up WordPress websites for clients and for agencies for their clients. I also up plugins and themes. I used to work for WPRocket, XWP and other nice companies in our communities. I’m really fond of performance optimization and I love talking about it as well and happy to be on this podcast.

Uros:
Yep. I’m also doing the performance optimization, mostly the backend stuff and server optimization. But yeah, I’m last couple of months doing that for the company I work in. But yeah, I’m really passionate about that. So yeah, there is interesting stuff going on today with the performance team.

Sabrina:
And we’re here today to talk about speeding up Woo websites, websites that are built as stores. Where shall we start

Uros:
With Woo as a definition to be the scalable platform for your e-commerce? And on a question, I often got the question, can wool be a good choice for a big site? And I will always ask the other question, what is the definition of the big site? And the short answer is yes, but we can talk about in details, but the short answer is yes, just depends. So

Sabrina:
What would you define as a big side? Because it depends on many things, right? On the content, on users, on traffic, what in your work you would define as big site?

Uros:
So yeah, as a big site, I have multiple definitions, but let’s say that the big site is at least a couple of years old and we can touch that because when you start, you don’t have orders. You have a small amount of users, maybe some logging in behind. So again, it needs to have orders, users and so on. And as a data, I would say maybe above 10,000 products maybe starts to get big because then you’ll get a lot of orders and depending on the visitors and users, and then if you have users that are logged in to the site or you have some memberships or some discounts that is counting to be a bigger site. And as I said, I would qualify all the sites, all the businesses that are working multiple years, the site is getting bigger, the maintenance is not done maybe properly, so you’ll get stuff piling up two years and then that can slow up your site. I don’t know what’s your opinion on that, but yeah, that’s a short definition from my part.

Sabrina:
Yeah, definitely. And according to my experience, it can also be a big site without a big database of products. It can be less than 1000 products, but if there are users, maybe not a lot of users as well, but if users are buying constantly, like it’s a permanent user database who are buying constantly these things from the website, and it usually happens when it’s some sort of subscription or downloadable product, something not physical. I see this often that a website that doesn’t have a lot of traffic, doesn’t have a huge amount of products, doesn’t have a huge database of users can be counted as a big website because they get all the problems, all the issues that really larger websites get. Have you noticed that as well?

Uros:
Yes, yes. Depending on that. I just didn’t mention that because currently I’m only working with the WooCommerce stores, so they usually have a lot of productivity. But yeah, it also depends on the number of orders, a number of visitor, it does need to be a user that is registered on the site, it’s just a visitor doing the buying and everything. And I should mention that working with this WooCommerce introduced this high performance storage and I would advise that everybody that is concerned about performance switch to high performance storage. I know there are challenges for example, not all plugins are work with the high performance storage, but it is a good future regarding the orders and performance in,

Sabrina:
I’m very curious if you had any experience recently adopt plugins that are not adopted yet by their developers to high performance storage? Because this can be a challenge and usually we would assume that plugins developers would do their best and adopt their plugins to what WooCommerce does, but it’s not always the case. How do you work around that?

Uros:
It’s a good question. So usually either we use our custom solution and then we are safe. But of course there are all sites that we are not cannot create custom solution for everything. So either we try to contact the plugin developer to see if there is an old map or a plan to switch to the high performance storage or we just do some migration in between. Because the commerce also has a migration between one and another. It’s not good for performance. The site will work, the functionality will work, but actually you’re not getting the performance part, but you’re getting the functionality that the client needs. So this is at

Sabrina:
Least it works,

Uros:
At least it works, but in the ideal world, you will wait for the update that the team will work, but sometimes you just need to pick performance or just something to work. But yeah, I agree with that, that the issue is currently that the developers cannot catch up with the changes and that is affecting the sites because yeah, I see in day-to-day work that they’re a lot, I don’t know the number, but pretty much a lot plugins that are not yet using the high performance storage and they’re doing something with orders basically.

Sabrina:
I think that the question here is even wider than using this specific update or using specific high performance storage from WooCommerce, which is quite new. But the situation in general, we both are very active in WordPress community and care about WordPress as a software and community as people and community as people who use WordPress in general. And I’m curious, what is your take on how as a community we can approach such questions? I have most of the work that I do, it’s around core vitals, it’s front end optimization and it’s very, very common that some plugins or some themes are causing issues.

And what I do is just what you mentioned, I try to reach out to plugin developers and say, Hey, there is a problem and it causes problem on all the websites that are using your plugin. And the problem is the same for everyone and here is the solution. Maybe you could do such and such. Sometimes it’s a nice chart and sometimes it gets fixed, but sometimes it leads nowhere, absolutely nowhere. And I’m thinking, do you have any take on how we can approach these cases like community wide?

Uros:
I mean that is a good question and I would always go speak more loudly in the meetups where comes and everything contributor day is trying to get awareness because I think it’s not a problem to address the things as long as people are aware of what is happening. I just don’t think they’re aware. And I mean if you get the community to say, but we need this and then this started being the talks or meetups or groups or Facebook groups, whatever, then the awareness will be higher for the particular issue. And then I think that the people will, because this is demand, if there is a demand for it, it’ll just happen.

But yeah, I just think that the awareness is low in general. I’m not talking only for high performance storage but for the performance in general, the site is working, it’s okay, and then you get some sale or something and then everything is slow. And then the usual definition will be very basically slow. I mean that this is generalizing things and it’s not like if people are more aware what can be slow because of this or that and this is a good practice and this is a bad practice and I just general knowledge needs to be a little bit higher. And then I think that is the end goal to increase general knowledge for multiple areas.

Sabrina:
I feel that it’s like a fine line between getting plugin developers know about the issue and shaming for not fixing them because a lot of plugin developers, it’s just their contribution in their free time and it’s not their day job and it’s normal. Thank you for doing this thing, thank you for making this thing. But they all just like us usual people who have lights on one hand. So sometimes when I face the same issues with same plugins, small plugins usually again and again and I reach back to plugin developers and nothing happens. I have this urge to post something on Twitter, tag them and say, look, there is an issue and so on so forth.

But on the other hand it doesn’t look very polite. Also, this is speaking of meetups and everything, some plugins affect only certain groups of people and certain groups of users that use that plugin and they might be all over across the world. They might have database of people that only use their plugin across the world, not in specific place. And I was just thinking in terms of plugin through review team for example, if we can do some sort of education around this matter, I know they do a lot of work and I know that the team is growing big now, so maybe some sort of standardized approach in terms of performance might help us too.

Uros:
Yeah, first of all, I want to say for the plugin review team, I head down that is the big responsibility, big job. I know they have a lot of on their plate, it’s not easy for them because it’s not like the community is publishing one plugin per month, there are thousands of plugins. But I agree that again, this is the same thing that if there will be a bigger awareness, but again then definition, the most question that I also get is how you test performance.

Because we have different types of people, companies using devoid press WooCommerce for their company or website. So maybe this is just the guessing, but let’s say for 80% of them everything works fine and then you will then force someone to introduce some performance. It’ll say, but why would I need performance? Because everything is looking fine. And then you have these bigger sites that they have some issues because they’re not in those 80% and then you need to satisfy both sides. And again, testing performance on what one thing is testing the clean WordPress without the WooCommerce and couple of plugins and then what happened if you had 10 more plugins or if you have another team that is not the same results that someone recommended.

Possibility of different scenarios of a website is endless and then one test or one recommendation for performance is cannot apply to bigger scale. So that’s also something that, for example, when we do that, this is like a common misunderstanding. If you made one site performance to be good, you cannot just copy paste the things you did there and just apply it to another one because it’s a different site. But I would love to have anything regarding performance saying that for example, this plugin

Performance for example, well with this amount of data or in these conditions like they started doing with WordPress, there is performance team now and they’re doing the measurement of the loading first by et cetera. So they’re doing the performance with all the major versions. But again, this is so concentrated only WordPress and as we know there is no WordPress site without the plugins or a team. So I don’t think there is a site that use only WordPress. So again, those tests I don’t think apply for example on your client that has one team that doesn’t matter, some team and then 10 plugins that are normal plugins to have essential plugins, let’s put it that way.

And I also experienced that for example, you would have a plugin or a team that is stable in this version and let’s say next week they release the new version like WooCommerce 8.5, they introduce some attribute ordering order, something that cash multiple sites and performance was bad. But again, this is only in that version, so that will be fixed in next or it’ll maybe not be fixed. But again, if you put a stamp on this saying this plugin is good for your performance and then the update happened and it can be bad for your performance and then in that case you cannot are you removing the stamp or saying to the client. So there are a lot of challenges in my opinion.

Sabrina:
I’m thinking now as we are talking about this, I’m thinking if we can come up with any basic ideas what would be all websites are different and WooCommerce websites are very, very different one from another, but could there be any basic recommendations for plugin developers in the terms and that would fit everyone? And I was just thinking about one and we have this plugin called plugin check that checks plugins before going to the repository and it checks for escaping for ST data for all this stuff. And I was thinking, wouldn’t it be nice to have kind of a reminder there or something or maybe there can be a check made or even just a reminder that if your plugin is not used on certain pages on front end just mind not to load its stuff there. It would help so much.

Uros:
I totally agree with that.

Sabrina:
I can’t think about anything else that basic and that simple that can be reminded to plugin developers, but that can be a start. Do you have something else to add in this basic

Uros:
List? I totally agree with your basic list. I would also just, it doesn’t need to be a step, but just a reminder that one, I’m now talking for a backend stuff and the server stuff. So I would like to remind we can always profile a code if we get it on monthly basis. That is the improvement because at least we are doing it as a developers, we test it, we see that there is an issue and then if you get it first once a month, then maybe once a week, then that can be a routine. And then if more and more people are just testing against, there are a lot of profilers, I’m not talking about the PHP or whatever is on the backend. So again, I would encourage people like you said this is the same, please do a test just to see how it behaves.

Because again, awareness of doing tests can change a lot of things because I think that the most releases are just released with, I don’t want to say zero testing, but the less testing that need to be and then that is also a thing that can be improved and then testing stuff and I like the new feature that was shown I think on the ADE work Met showed it. Now you can go and just live test with the provision in the browser, the plugin or something. So that is an opportunity so you can see and then you can actually see right away with couple of clicks if adding something can slow or break something maybe, I mean if it breaks someone will change it. But again, I just think that the people, if they want to test something, again, they’re not easy use case to test something. So again, if we encourage that and just get the mindset of we need to profile, we need to test, we need to do a Google page, speed lighthouse, whatever, but we need to do it and then change it like that because I don’t think that you can put one definition and that one definition would solve everything but encouraging people to say please run at least one test again against 100 users or whatever. It’s very good for the start

Sabrina:
Just to be clear for people who will listening to us. Do you mean WordPress playground?

Uros:
Yes, yes, I did not mention that. Yeah, WordPress playground.

Sabrina:
The thing is called WordPress playground and this is kind of WordPress playground in the browser and you can see what is happening when you change things in WordPress in browser, it doesn’t require any installation. It’s easy to test. Yeah, that’s another recommendation.

Uros:
And also if again this is, that is one thing that is good because you have a lot of people that just want to test something, they don’t know how to install it locally or they don’t want to edit to the live site because anything can happen. But also in that way, if we can create any kind of easy test or just showing because of this, I mean there are plugins like query Monitor and something like that that you can see that if something is slow or you do the X debug or New Relic or their tools, but those are advanced tools for the people to test and this playground, if there are some tools like that, I think that can help bring awareness and people will maybe address it more. I want to compare it with the SEO and the things like 10 years ago people didn’t know about it and then it started and then everybody learned and now everybody is the expert.

But again, they’re aware that when they have a post or a product, they need to do something in order to be visible in Google. In this case we do the same thing with awareness saying when you do a change that needs to be properly tested or seen in order for your site to perform better in order for you to get a better position on social media or Google. So this is the same thing happens just for the SEO in my opinion, the awareness is now pretty high and for these things like frontend optimization, backup, we are still lacking knowledge if that’s my opinion. I don’t know what you think about it.

Sabrina:
I’m thinking using this opportunity being on this show, maybe we can come up with some least list of steps that imaginable developer can take if they notice there is an issue on their website. Let’s say there is developer who is not performance expert but they notice or they feel like you feel like the website is acting slow. You don’t know in which scenario it’s happening. You don’t know either it’s fronted or backend, you don’t know anything, but it was kind of fine a month ago and now it’s acting weirdly. What if we try to come up with a few steps that they can take to figure out where to look

Uros:
At least? Yeah, I mean I know at least three steps I would try. So let’s say you’re not that experienced, but if that started happening, first thing I would recommend, so easy. So this is not a developer tool, but it’s easy if you can add a plugin there like we talked about it, it’s a query monitor. It can show you if there is some error on the site or if there are some slow queries to the database. So again, I know that there are developers going to say you can see slow queries, MySQL queries on the server. So that is advanced thing, the simplest thing, add a plugin and track, not the best thing, but you can see there if there are some issues, yes, if that doesn’t, let’s say that doesn’t reveal anything or important, then I would suggest now depending on your hosting and server provider, you can check logs.

Let’s say for the people that are not experienced, there are two types of logs. One is the error log and another one is access log. So if you don’t know when is happening or what kind of pages causing it in access log, you can see that. So you can see for example in the last hour you got 1000 views of specific page on the website that has a newsletter and some feed or something and then you can then assume that that something on that page is creating a problem and then you can continue from there. And then in that case you can create test page with only one block or with only feed to see if that is going to behave slowly and then you can eliminate one by one. This is if the page is making a problem. Then you can see also if there is some current jobs or W-P-C-L-I commands and then you can address those.

For example, in multiple cases if you have a big database doing a backup can slow down the site because the database will be locked and then the site cannot do anything. So again, you can move back ups, but you can see those details in the access login error log of the website. Again you cannot see everything there. That would be a second step. And then as a third step, if you want to go more advanced and I want to be actively doing on performance, there are tools that I would recommend that you can use New Relic, you can use X debug or you can use black fire. All those three tools are testing your code performance. So you can record the whole page and then it’ll tell you exactly how many queries, what function is called, how many times the function is called, which file is, so everything how it’s behaving in the background for you.

And then from there you can then pick saying, okay, this plugin is taking five seconds to load on this specific page to I really need this plugin or can this be changed? Can I introduce some caching plugin, can I? But those are a little bit more advanced tools but I would spend some time to get familiar just to point, again, those are the similar tools, so this is not, you need to do all three of those. So just once more, this is black fire, new Relic and X debug. Some of them are free, some of them have a paid plan. So again, you don’t need all three but you start at least with one. And then again, if you want to test the front end and just the Google Pay speed, you can use Lighthouse or does Google speed or maybe you have some suggestion because I’m not that familiar with mostly front end.

But yeah as a three steps to sum it up from my part one is query monitor, easy, good things about it. It’s pretty user friendly. You can just see what’s happening and there is if something is red, you know that strong. So it’s easy to find the bottlenecks. The second one would be check the logs on the server, both access and error logs and then PHP errors or something like that. And the third one is use one of the tools like Black Fire, new Relic or X debug and again you’ll find issues with plugins but then this is awareness I’m talking about. But yes, what would your steps be?

Sabrina:
I will be talking now not about my personal steps when I’m hired top to my someone websites, but steps that someone who is not performance expert but just a developer can take to identify what’s happening and if something is happening because this is the beginning of the process. So let’s say you just notice something is off. I would recommend to start with narrowing down the problem if I think it might be overwhelming for the person who is not used to a lot of performance information, open reports, look there without knowing what you’re looking for without hypothesis, it’s hard to diverse. What’s important from what is not important, it’s just overwhelming amount of information if you don’t background, if you don’t experience to know what you are searching for. So I would recommend to first identify if the problem exists and if so where it does exist probably I would recommend to go first thing to Google search console and check your core web vitals data and see if there are any issues there.

So Google Search console is place where in page size there is a small thing where you have core web vitals assessment. This is real field data from your website, but it comes from the bigger source of information and the more detailed report can be found in Google search console. There is a tab there called core vitals. You can go there and you can check if your core vitals assessment is passing, if your website is passing core vitals assessment, right? And this might be the first indicated to you. So if the website is passing core web vitals assessment, especially on LCP and first input delay, which will soon be replaced with INP interactive to next paint. So if it passing on this two, it means that real users don’t have problems with speed on your website on front end, but if at the same time you have the feeling that something is off, something is loading slowly, I would try to differentiate probably if it’s happening only when you locked in, if it’s happening for locked in users and it’s not happening for locked out users and then you will have the answer.

If it’s not happening for locked out users, there are no issues with core web vitals, then this issue most likely will be connected with something on backend that is cached or mitigated by something on front end for locked off users. Okay, this is already a lot of information for us. We already know that we should be looking in the backend because it’s happening in the backend and from this point we can install. I would recommend install query, monitor and looking there. But again, when you install query monitor, there is a huge amount of information there. If you don’t know where you are looking at, it’s easy to get lost. And some websites they have a lot of issues. This happens to my clients a lot. They see that the website have a lot of issues, there are errors, there are slow queries, there are a lot of sales and scripts loading.

There is a version of PHP that is not the latest one. Even not close to latest one, object cash is not used and they do not know where to start. There are so many issues I would recommend to pinpoint what is the most easy thing to fix and the most easy things to fix are usually basic ones First it’s PP version. It would be so easy to, it’s really, really easy to fix. You just upgrade server to high PHP version test there. Your website if all plugins play well with it, you keep it going. Then I just remembered. Now the thing that is often overlooked, there is a theme that we have in WordPress that is called Ability memory limit and by default it’s set to 40 megabytes and I see a lot of cases when this default number hasn’t been changed. For years the site was surviving somehow, but now it’s not because 40 megabytes, it’s very, very low number.
I agree with that. That’s fine. It would be funny. Yeah, it would be. No indeed it’s so funny.

But it happens often. I see that they are upgrading their hosting, they’re paying for say two gigabytes of RAM on their hosting, but there is a limit set in their WordPress to 40 gigabytes. So they never use what they’re paying for. By the way query monitor is showing that thing. So if you have limit for W memory limit set to the default to 40 megabytes, you’ll see that in query monitor. So that would be another very easiest thing to fix. I would recommend for someone who is not before hiring someone like me or there are things that you can check and fix yourself easily and if after that the problem doesn’t disappear, that that is a sign there is a problem that this is a sign you should seek for help.

But from such easy ones, let me think, object caching can be a very good idea and query Monitor is showing that as well. It shows you sometimes it can be misleading. In query monitor it says like object caching plugin is not in use and it’s a little bit misleading because you should check numbers next to this line saying so many hits and so many cached and if you have from 100%, you have 95% cashed, that’s fine. It means queer caching is working. It’s just you’re not using the plugin to manage it, but it is working. There is nothing to worry about. So my recommendation would be first of all separate, try to figure out if it’s frontend or backend by going to core web vitals. Then going as locked in user and trying to figure out if it’s backend or frontend. If it’s backend, it’s still query monitor, look at query basic things like WP memory limit meet application.

Uros:
You can also look for the MySQL version because that is the same like P version. There are new versions that are improving the database thing. So that is also, and most of the server hosting allow you to upgrade that as well, like PHP. So try to be on the latest version as you can that nothing is breaking. But yeah,

Sabrina:
Easy things to do, right? What else? Easy things to fix. We can see in query monitor without touching or error, slow database queries and so on. Let’s think.

Uros:
I mean you can always check if you have the plugins that are activated on the site and you’re not using it anymore or you have multiple plugins for the same things over the years. For example, the first year you have plugin number one, then you did not disable it, you had a plugin number two, then plugin number three and now only plugin number three is doing specific thing. And for example, wishlist, you have three wishlist plugin plugins and you only use one, so please remove the other two that are not in use because that is easy for the person to do because again, that is the person that knows their sites so they know if they’re using it or not. This is easy or at least deactivated it. You don’t need to delete it, just deactivate the plugin.

Sabrina:
Exactly. This is a brilliant recommendation. This is so basic but people are overlooking it. Yeah, go to plugins, examine what is not in use, deactivated, disabled, delete, and if the problem stays, the next step will be deactivating your plugins. See if problems stay. If problems stay, then it means the problem is in your theme roll back to centered theme. If problems taste, then something is wrong with either WordPress or server, which is not a good news, but it is the result. It can be a virus, it can be something happening on your website, but you can narrow down like this. So activating your plugins, if the problem disappeared, it means one, it’s one of the plugins.

Try activating in groups. Figure out which plugin plugin is causing the most impact because usually it’s the combination of all plugins, but sometimes you are lucky and you can see that it’s one plugin that is causing 30 40% of slowness and do that while having query monitor to own. You can open this plugin page in one tab and have query monitor to own say on homepage in another tab and updating homepage while disabling enabling plugins to see how numbers change there. And that might give you some information. Let’s think what else can be simply done? How could we forget, get abandoned post matter transient and such and such? What would be your recommendation for people to figure this out and fix this for those who are not performance engineers, but what can be done from graph interface

Uros:
For the WooCommerce? I know days you can just go to the status page of the settings of the WooCommerce and you can clear the tent, you can clean sessions, you can clean unused variation trials and that kind of stuff. So WooCommerce has their own user interface that you can just click or you can just, for example, there is a slow tasks in that direction when they’re like you need to regenerate the attributes or something. They already build a tools for that, so you just click on the buttons. They’re pretty simple. Nothing, just click on the buttons without WooCommerce. I’m pretty not sure what’s the latest in that area. Now I suppose I know that there are a couple of plugins that can optimize clean up the unnecessary things from the database. So why would if no, this is talking for non-developers because for the developers you can clean it on your own.

You don’t need the plugin, but there are plugins that are optimizing and cleaning the database of the unused things. So I would try with one of those to see how it’s going to behave. But I would also add, if you add some query, monitor or plugin to optimize the database, when you finish looking or doing the thing, please disable the plugin. The query monitor is taking the research from the server, so after you do your investigation, please disable it because there is again that mistake of leaving query mount or a database cleaner or whatever it’s called. And it can cause your site to be slow just because you forget to disable it so that also don’t forget to clean up after you as well.

Sabrina:
Just to add to this, this is a very usual scenario when debug walk is on, and this is high attendant, high visited website and writing error log, its up resources on the website and writing error log is the main issue with performance. So just to be clear, error log and query monitor and things like this, they should be activated for short period of time for discover and fixing process and then they should be deactivated because they’re taking up a lot of resources

Uros:
Of course. So when you finish with something and that is not a default part of the website, you disabled it, that’s your rule number one, whatever you’re doing, whatever things that you’re testing or for example, this is again not maybe easy for every user, but if you change something on a server just to test it, return it back. Because if you’re not sure what you’re doing, you are maybe creating more issues than you’re helping yourself. So just be careful.

Sabrina:
I just remembered now the simple thing that can be checked. So a lot of hosting providers let you have as much staging environments, development environments as you wish, and some people generously use it. They would have few development websites staging a website that were used like two years ago and then abandoned, never updated, never used again. Just be mindful that your package with hosting provider, your resources are distributed through all instances that you have on that server.

So if you have on the same server, you have your production website and then stage your website and then development website and then another development website, it means that all resources are distributed between four websites. Yes, those three, they are not visited as much as the first one, but they’re eating up a lot of resources. So if you are not using staging and development versions, they should be removed as well. This is another leak of performance on the service side

Uros:
And especially if they have some current jobs or something that is earning in background when you visited, even if you’re the only one visiting the site, it’s going to trigger the things that are going to write to the database or to the server and then you’re creating issues for no reason. But yeah,

Sabrina:
I think the most common issue with SEO is when people create staging and development environment and they forget to put the checkbox there, like ask Google not to index my website. This is very simple, very basic, but people forget to do this and then all of a sudden they have duplicated content and they have issues with traffic and with everything. This is the very similar thing. If you are creating a copy of your website on the same server, it’ll be taking resources from your production. Just keep that in mind.

Uros:
Yeah, I totally agree.

Sabrina:
Shall we summarize what we were talking about today?

Uros:
I can do it for the backend stuff again, my recommendation to test the code, the backend stuff of the code would be from the simple steps depending on your level of knowledge is. So query monitor as the first one, check everything, what he’s saying to you. The second one would be check the access log and error log on the server just to get familiar what’s happening there and what are the pages that I visited mostly and if there are any errors.

And the third one for the experienced one or for the people want to get started with performance or anything you can do. There’s the I debug, there is a black fire and there’s a new relic, three tools, very good tools to monitor the database, to monitor the code, to monitor the visitors, whatever you want to monitor. So get familiar with that. Those would be the three steps and I would like to, for all the people who are listening to us to say we need to get awareness of the performance and slow code to more people, to spread it, to make it easy for people to understand what is the issue and not just saying WordPress is slow or WordPress is not slow.

So it can scale, it can be pretty speedy. Just needs to be used properly. So that would be short summary from my side

Sabrina:
And the same thing people say about tools.

Uros:
Yep. I mean that applies.

Sabrina:
Yeah, it applies. It depends on how you use it and also it depends on what else is playing in the same playground. Sometimes in query monitor you will see that such and such WooCommerce or WordPress function function causes issue this and this is slow, but the source of this problem might be laying out of WordPress, out of WooCommerce, but in satellite plugin that are using their functions to read this error, to read this stack, what’s happening step by step. You have to use tools like query and so on. And you have to read carefully what is called, where the issue is happening and try to narrow down to the problem to where it originates from.

Uros:
Yeah, I agree that because there are let’s say plugins or functions that are misused or used in the wrong way and then that can be misleading that the VU is the problem, but actually some other plugins. But just be careful and look for the don’t grab for one thing, just look outside of the scope a little bit and yeah, you’re safe.

Sabrina:
Ru thank you so much for the company in this show today. It was a lovely chat. I’m sure we could have been talking about performance from your side, from backend, from my side, from mostly front end forever. I hope that this chat was useful.

Uros:
Maybe they want to hear more and then we can do another show. But we can do any kind of topic regarding performance. We can only front end, only backend or we can just continue talking. But yeah, it was nice to talk to you about the performance and to people who are listening to us and hopefully we are going to talk soon again.

Sabrina:
Thank you and thank you for everyone who is listening. Thank you to Bob for hosting us.

Uros:
Thank you. Cheers.