Reflecting Back on WordCamp Europe 2023

Dave: Hello and welcome to a very special edition of Do the Woo. I’m standing in for Bob today. My name’s David Lockey. With me, I have a fabulous panel of guests. We have Tammie from Inside, we have Marius from WP Riders. We have Robert from him, himself, and we have Christine from Nexcess, and we have the economist, Remkus. So please enjoy this session where we reflect on WordCamp Europe 2023 in Athens and what a great WordCamp it was. So I’m going to pick on Tammie because I had a great catch up with her at the Alta party, which was not at everyone’s taste, but interesting, nonetheless.

Overall Reflections of WCEU 2023

So Tammie, what were your overall reflections? Let’s pick on you.

Tammie: Yeah, so last year’s WordCamp felt like everyone was just saying hello again after a gap, and this felt like everyone was getting settled into WordCamp again. I guess that was one of the feelings. It felt like there were lots of discussions and lots of input. I really thought the response, I’m going to go wide, and we can go in, but I thought the talks were pretty interesting. How many panels there were, was really interesting. We can get into that. But also I thought the sponsor areas were really well done this year. I thought that was really interesting. I think the balance between that has been curious to see grow over the years, but I found that really interesting. I think there were lots of discussions on growth and where DIDs the community go. But I saw a difference between who was there, which think is curious to dig into as well, a lot of products, which I always think is a happy… People talking about products, not just plugins, which I think is a super happy way to frame it.

So that’s quite wide, but I’d love to dig in more from there. I found lots of people were talking about things like, how do we do more professional approaches to different aspects as well? How do we get investment? How do we level up different aspects? It used to be like there was one business talk per WordCamp, and it felt was a lot more of that this time, which I think is a really healthy thing for our ecosystem.

Dave: Yeah, nice reflections. And it was definitely good to get back altogether under one big roof as well. So I’m just going to go in order. Marius, what were your takeaways or reflections? Did you enjoy yourself?

Marius: Yeah, it was another lovely WordCamp. Probably seventh or eighth WordCamp Europe in a row. This time it was special because of Athens, obviously. But the expectations were pretty high because of the after Covid, meeting and gatherings, and coming again together with so many inspiring people, WordPress developers, core contributors, agency owners. And I really, really love the discussions that we have throughout the WordCamp, exchanging perspectives. Actually WordCamp for me, it’s about exchanging perspectives, helping contributing to the success of others and also getting ideas. I’ve learned about interesting new tools, interesting sponsors. And there have been more business presentations. But I’ve got feedback from some of my team members that came with us, they are technical team members, and they said they wish there were more in-depth technical presentations. So all in all, I think it was a huge plus.

Dave: Yeah, that’s interesting feedback. Thank you. And how about you, Robert? Because I think last time you were there as part of an organization, this time you’re there on your own ticket. How did that feel different? Or did WordCamp feel different to you this year compared to previous years?

Robert: So WordCamp Europe is actually my favorite. I didn’t get a chance this year to go to Asia, but there’s always been, has felt as if there was more of a business focus in general. And it’s interesting, with Tammie saying that there were more business panels and sessions and whatnot, and I feel even though it’s a community driven event, being able to connect with CEOs from all of these companies, they were there, hosting. Newfold, Yoast, Bluehost, that’s all in the same family, but they were all there, and that’s amazing. You’re not going to necessarily see that at WordCamp US. It’s a little harder and the size of the event doesn’t necessarily warrant all those. And WordCamp Europe is for me, because I think I’ve only been at four, has always been the largest of the WordCamps. And that density of deal makers, business folk, high level community engineers, and people who are engaged, really makes it exciting.

And I’ve seen that actually at both ends, at being individual or from the company side, just because you’re going to have the same conversations. There’s so many people there doing so many things that, whether you’re as part of a company or just as an attendee, you can actually have literally the exact same conversation. WordCamp Europe always brings a huge smile to me because I feel it is really an opportunity for everyone to connect and intermingle, from the pure open source side to the really high end business side. And I really enjoyed, and Tammie also touched on this, the sponsorships didn’t feel like it was a hosting-only dominated WordCamp. Plugins, products, SaaS services, that were not necessarily directly WordPress, that shows a nice growth in how WordPress connects with all other kinds of technologies and tools and businesses. And I really liked seeing that this year. That was fantastic. You had training companies, you had workflow and project management companies that, yes, they do some WordPress stuff, but it wasn’t like the only business, and that’s absolutely fantastic to see. So yeah, it’ll be my favorite this year.

Dave: Nice. Thank you. Christine, over to you. Am I right in thinking that you all had a stand there?

Christine: Yeah, so I’m coming onto this from the sponsorship point of view, so that’s what I’m bringing to the table. We were a sponsor this year, well at all the flagship events, but I didn’t have a chance unfortunately to attend any sessions. I heard great feedback about them. But we were so busy, it was just absolute madness and I loved every second of it. And I think I mentioned to a few coworkers, after the fact, that even if I was standing in the same spot, look, I never saw the same face twice. It was insane. And then I went to the after party and it was a whole new set of people, and I’m like, “Where were all these people during the conference?” I could not recognize anyone. Obviously these WordCamps are like a big family reunion, so you do see previous faces that you know. And so it’s very nice to connect with people that you know.

Yes, Robert is giving me the thumbs up. Thank you, Jacobi. We know each other from a few other WordCamps. But yeah, it’s nice to connect with those that we’ve seen in the past, but it’s also terrific to make those new connections and to reach out to other people who, it may have been their first WordCamp, and just immersing themselves in that experience. So it was really, really terrific. I did have a chance to walk around and visit the other sponsors, and everyone just brought their A game and I just had so much fun.

Dave: Awesome, thanks for that perspective. And somebody who should be able to give us as good a perspective on this year’s WordCamp Europe and how it fits into the bigger story of WordCamp Europe, is of course Remkus, who has not only attended every single one but also organized them. In fact, WordCamp Europe is here partly thanks to his blood, sweat and tears. So Remkus, this journey continues for you. I know that you bought family this time. Yeah, I’d love to hear, how was it for you?

Remkus: I think what Robert says, is what resonated most with me in terms of the vibe. So the original idea was to go to a WordCamp, to create it, because it wasn’t there. And the idea behind it was that we needed a good excuse to come together, and the best way we saw at the time, and this is 2012, was to organize something that had something going on, and there’s something with the talks and the presentations, because that’s what a WordCamp was at the time. And from there we evolved into a larger and more encompassing and more professional, and all of that. And what I liked, that I saw, is that most of the original vibe is still there. So when you walk through the venue, and I agree that the sponsor booths were exceptionally well taken care of.

So the first day when nobody was in the sponsor booth, especially the long one when you entered on the right, small business ones, I was worried maybe this is too long of a hallway and this might not work too well. But having spoken to quite a few people behind the booth as well as in front of the booths over there, as well as the other areas of the venue, there was nothing but positive feedback in terms of the interactivity that they saw, the conversation that were quite easy to strike up. I saw some booth that did not have a lot of engagement, but the persons manning them were also not very engaging. So it is a two-way street. But all in all the vibe was absolutely wonderful. I think the only thing that I have some comments on are, there were not an enough places to sit down.

You had the cafe location in the beginning, that’s it. And then the very uncomfortable stairs, which is something I’ve used, but my tall body doesn’t really fit well in those stairs. So it was kind of make do, but all in all, the vibe is very much akin to the original goal that we set, that was to communicate, to collaborate and to learn from each other. And yes, I did bring my son this time. I brought him last year as well, but this time, I just want to mention that briefly, he was part of the photography team, so he had a very specific task. So that made it a much more enjoyable event for him versus previous edition. But bringing family on this is a good example of how wholesome of an event it is.

Robert: There were a lot of family members there, like Yoast, and others who brought their tribe of children. And there was a lot of families there from, globally, I saw folks from India who had brought their families as well. So that was great to see.

Remkus: Yeah, so I’m happy with how, especially on an emotional level, how I experienced the event. There’s lots of things I can mention that I thought that that should have gone better and should be more smooth, and all of that. But I’ve not had a WordCamp where I did not have those sentiments. So those will always be there, but yeah, the connecting, the vibe, the whole thing was excellent.

Dave: I’m glad to hear you had such a nice time. I think it’s funny, because the lack of comfort from seating area was actually, it was almost more marked, because the rest of the event was so comfortable. There was enough food, the food was a great quality, people were bonding over that, they were sitting outside. The conversations were less strained than the first one back after Covid. Everyone was a bit more confident of not breathing in each other’s faces. So it felt a little bit more like back to normal, and that in fact, the chairs are in stark contrast to that. So now I’ve noticed, I came to the first WordCamp Europe in Laden as well, so we’ve watched over WordCamp’s trajectories, the increasing maturity of the ecosystem. So companies are getting bigger, whether that’s automatic or e-commerce, where I work, or it’s agencies inside, we’ve seen this aggregation of, I’m not going to say power, but in a very broad sense we’ve seen these businesses mature, become more capable, and establish more presence.

It definitely felt like there’s been more and more serious money at these WordPress WordCamp events, probably with Google being a bit of a flagship there. As soon as their stalls started rolling out at the big WordCamps, it felt like it was professionalizing a little bit. One thing that I was very heartened to see this year was that it wasn’t exclusively in that direction, there was still plenty of diversity from smaller businesses, from startups, and it didn’t feel like everything had become corporatized. Sorry, Christine, I know you’ve got something to add in here as well.

Christine: No, I just wanted to add on, that having attended several of these WordCamps as both sponsor and attendee, I think one of the things I super appreciated this year was the involvement of the organizers. I was checked on as a sponsor multiple times. And I’m not saying that the others weren’t as great, where they didn’t check on me, but I felt a lot more care this time in the form of the organizers physically coming by my booth multiple times asking if I’m okay, do I need anything? And that really encourages me as a sponsor and gave me a really good feeling. And so I sincerely appreciate that. So I just wanted to give a shout-out to the organizers for stopping by and checking on us. Thank you.

Remkus: I also wanted to hark in on what you said, David. I think there’s a good distinction to be made in terms of why WordCamp Europe is different, and with sponsors specifically, the entry price for a sponsorship booth for WordCamp Europe is significantly lower than WordCamp US, for instance. So what that does, it opens up the floor quite a bit more for non-hosting type sponsors as well. I think this is a big reason why we saw so many different types of sponsors across the two main areas. That is something to note, that technically you cannot out-price sponsors because ultimately there will be an audience for whatever you put out, as these are the levels, but you can push out the smaller ones.

And I think there are events where this has happened. And I think WordCamp Europe is a good example where the effort that has gone into the way the sponsorship levels are created, so the super admin, and the admin are relatively high, but what’s below that is relatively low, which is I think a wonderful mix to make sure that the big booths are there. Google’s a great example of this. But the plethora of small businesses and small agencies, or small services and stuff that you saw, which Robert mentioned as well, I loved it. That is the community, right?

Robert: It’s funny that you mentioned that hallway, Remkus, earlier. The best part of that hallway was, it was on the way to the bathrooms.

Remkus: Yeah, yeah.

Robert: Really did get a lot of traction that they probably wouldn’t have if they were pushed off to the edges somewhere else. The location was great for that. I really encouraged sneaking through, seeing all the sponsors. Really well done.

Tammie: And that was one thing that I thought was really, outside WordPress is a healthy product culture, and sometimes we don’t have as much as we really should, of small people getting together and doing it. There’s a lot of agencies, there’s a lot of that. There’s a lot of bigger, and hosting, in particular, represented, but we actually have a healthy culture of just getting together and making things, but we don’t see it represented at these events. That felt to me, I don’t know if I was noticing it. That’s also what I’m trying to look on my lens, did I notice it more? Was it my mindset? But I think it was featured more. I think that was just it, it was more present there, so therefore I noticed it more. There were people pitching, there were people talking more, so therefore it felt like there was more opportunity for, hey, if people could grow things.

I could imagine if I’d have gone to that, and I had an idea, I could see myself in a few years having that idea and being able to do that there. Those are the things that I think is really healthy for the next thing in WordPress. There was a lot of talk about, what’s the next thing? And that’s how we get the next things is by showing that there’s a healthy space, that you don’t have to have a lot of big money. You don’t have to have the big investment, you can start small and you can do that.

Robert: And if you noticed it, Tammie, other people absolutely noticed it as well. We’re in the weeds of it all the time, so we have expectations around that. But a lot of those, in the small business side, they had never done a WordCamp before.

Tammie: It was the products that I definitely felt was more like, “Oh, okay.” That’s definitely, people were discussing building things. And it felt like I’d gone a little bit back and I felt really excited by that. We used to talk about building plugins and themes, but it was building products. And I was really excited by those conversations that people were having around that as well, and the pitches that they were having. And then the partnerships, they were talking, there’s a partnership panel and then people were talking about how can they do that? It just felt that there was a different tone, which was really exciting.

Thanks to our Pod Friends

Greek hospitality, parties, food and more

Dave: And going back to the grassroots, and we’ve talked about community as well, I’d definitely to say a massive thank you to the Greek WordPress community. I think you could have taken everyone who wasn’t from Greece away and it still would’ve been a moderately successful WordCamp Europe, there was that much attendance and participation. I just felt super welcomed and I was volunteering on the WooCommerce stand quite a lot. And it was really heartening just to meet so many different, not just agencies and freelancers, but also merchants who cared deeply about WooCommerce, depended on it for their livelihood, and were just really interested in what was going on and what we were going to do and all of that. So yeah, thank you. Thank you to Greece. You are an extremely hospitable and welcoming country to have this WordCamp in.

Remkus: Absolutely.

Robert: Claps all around.

Marius: Plus one. What about the end-of-day parties?

Robert: Oh God, we’re going to get there.

Dave: Let’s say best parties.

Robert: Oh, best parties.

Dave: Yeah, let’s name and shame.

Tammie: Pride party for me, I just felt that that was, it was just a hug.

Dave: That’s awesome.

Tammie: I was super tired and it was one of those parties, this is a bit like, “This is my life.” But I was super tired. I’d ordered vegan takeouts, vegan food and all those things, just because I was tired and I wanted… Say that four times and you’re really tired. And I wanted to be charged. And it was one of those ones where you’re just like, “Oh, I’m going to go.” And I went, and just the energy, and I just felt great. Even though I just couldn’t for the life of me do that thing with the fan, I’m just so bad at it. But it just felt really good, and it just felt like everything that I adore about these people in the community. And I didn’t stay too long, but it was a big hug, and that for me was incredible. So that one was one for me.

Robert: That would be the best party event, actually, I’ve been to at any WordCamp.

Tammie: And it was inclusive, I will also say. As someone that doesn’t drink, that was super inclusive for me. I didn’t feel like I needed to drink. I could eat food before and then come and be relaxed. I could be on the edge and calm, and all those things. So I felt it felt super inclusive.

Robert: It was brilliant. I really want to give shout-outs to Koda Bowl, Newfold. Especially Mike Demo, because that’s his baby and he deserves all the praise for putting that together. That was great. On the more businessy side, the WP VIP event was great though, that was not a giant public event. Indie Stack had a great event. It was early and outdoors, and that was just nice to just walk into.

Christine: Nexcess had a great event also.

Robert: I didn’t make that event.

Christine: I know you didn’t. I just have to tease. That was also not a highly publicized event. I just had to be a little bit biased and show some loyalty here. My party was excellent for those who did attend. Thank you. Continue.

Robert: Absolutely.

Christine: It was super, even though Jacobi wasn’t there. Jacobi wasn’t there, but he enjoyed it completely.

Robert: Well, there was the WordPress Enterprise Meetup, Enterprise Gap meetup.

Tammie: That’s the one I was going to say, the Enterprise Gap one. That was… Was it two days before? Oh, time. Time is hard.

Robert: It was Wednesday.

Tammie: Yes. Time is difficult when you attend a WordCamp. And that was my first, back at WordPress for a while. That was really special I felt, because that was something I know we’ve talked about for a long time in WordPress, about doing. And I know that there was one, WordCamp Asia, that I didn’t experience, but for me that felt really special and I deeply enjoyed it, apart from the hot room.

Robert: Well, and inside’s very much involved in that process as well, except it was really hot. I had arrived that morning and I may have fallen asleep for 10 minutes.

Remkus: Well, you weren’t the only one. My son was taking pictures, and he’s had a couple of pictures of folks just having their eyes shut.

Robert: Yeah, feel free to not post those on Twitter.

Christine: I’ll pay extra.

Remkus: I enjoyed the Gap one as well. It is nice to see that direction being included into the WooCommerce narrative as a whole. I wanted to go to all the parties, and in doing so, we missed out on the Pride because we arrived at 12:00 exactly, when things closed down. So I didn’t know there was that early closing of the party.

Robert: It was because of noise.

Remkus: Yeah, I think there’s something like a hotel or something nearby, or something. They complained, or…?

Robert: Well, they were in the hotel that was… Was that the Moxie? That was it, that was where that was at. But yeah, even in that area, they had outdoor noise restrictions. So you could hear it for blocks.

Remkus: Yeah, yeah. We were right outside when the noise just went silent, and people started fishing out, “What’s happening? What’s going on?” “Oh, it just shut down.” “No, we just got here. What is this?” But we found a side ground party that was still happening, so we got a good hour and a half there and then that shut down as well. But that was smart to go to bed at that time anyway.

Robert: Yeah, I’m just looking at the list. There was the Enterprise Gap, Patchstack, and Elementor. Nexcess, of course, Indie Stack.

Remkus: Human Made.

Robert: Oh yeah, Human Made. Oh, that’s right. That wasn’t even on my calendar, I just want-

Dave: Let’s not forget the lovely people at Big Bite who co-hosted that party as well. That was a banger. The view was amazing.

Robert: At night, it was gorgeous. Yeah, all lit up. Let’s see, who else? IndieStack, Pride, SiteGround-

Marius: WooCommerce Meetup.

Dave: Yeah, that was my favorite, Marius, the WooCommerce Community Meetup. Super nice to just meet people from all over Europe. Yeah, smashing, small and medium WooCommerce businesses, really good.

Marius: Yeah, so much inspiring exchange and ideas and perspectives. This open source thing, it’s just going on beyond the code. It’s open sourcing, business models, positioning approaches, advertising approaches, and so on. It’s goes far and beyond. So definitely the WooCommerce Meetup was one of my favorite as well.

Remkus: I think it’s a perfect case of, you can’t be everywhere all at the same time. But the list was long. And I think if memory serves me well, this is probably the first one where every single evening you had multiple options, and also consecutively, right? You could go two to three if you planned it nicely, you could if you wanted to. I don’t think it was wise to do so, we’ve only tried to do it one night and we failed. And I just mentioned that, but…

Tammie: There was also the picnic, so I actually went to the picnic right at the start as well.

Robert: Oh, the pre-event picnic, right?

Tammie: Yeah, the pre-event picnic. So before you’ve even started, you can have a picnic.

Christine: I have to ask though. No, I have to ask if any of you guys took advantage of the yoga meditation area. I did not, personally, but I would love to hear if anyone else did.

Remkus: I think it was not a lot of visitors in total, little more than a dozen. The team I was part of, the Community team, organized it. And I think we’ve seen events where there was a higher turn up than this particular one. I also think that the heat might also have a negative contributing factor to here.

Robert: Well, and it’s Greek time, everything starts later, goes later, and you’re going to sleep later.

Tammie: Yeah, I think it was Berlin… Was it Berlin? Please someone, correct me if I’m wrong, where it happened in the middle of the day or something, some relaxation. That it was wasn’t at the beginning, it was in the middle. And I remember taking advantage of it at a WordCamp when it was at lunch, and doing some yoga relaxation. That worked a bit better for me than the morning. I think with all these parties, getting up and then going to yoga meditation is a bit of an ask. But having a afternoon one, that would’ve been… So maybe that’s a very small bit of criticism.

Dave: I was absolutely too full of delicious Greek foods to do it, and I think remotely active after lunch, for some considerable time.

Remkus: Food was good. Food was good everywhere.

Dave: So I think that was the best food I’ve had at a WordCamp, or in fact at any conference.

Remkus: Possibly, yeah.

Christine: A hundred percent.

Remkus: I ate more than I usually ate. And when I got home I was one kilo lighter, so that’s super weird in my head. How did that work?

Robert: That’s so funny you say that, Remkus. Literally the same thing, I was like, “I’ve been eating all day every day.” And, yeah.

Tammie: You’ve been dancing to those parties, that’s what you’ve been doing. You’ve been boogieing at those late night parties, on the rooftops.

Remkus: But the parties have been part of the mix at every single WordCamp so far. So I was like, “How did I do this? And can I please replicate that going forward?”

Dave: I think we should hi hijack Bob’s WooCommerce focused podcast and turn it into a bio-hacking podcast. So I want to hear all your tips about conference weight loss.

Robert: Yeah, well I ate a ton of Greek salads, so that was perfect, because that’s one of my favorite salads, and I had it every single day. And comically, I’ve also made it all week since I’ve returned. I was like, “I miss a Greek salad. This is…”

Christine: Well, I’m sure all the hills didn’t help, walking all those hills.

Dave: Yeah, the hills didn’t help. Did you get the little olive oil and the Greek herb swag from the WooCommerce booth, Robert?

Marius: I did.

Christine: And I did.

Marius: Yeah?

Robert: I did not. I had a hard enough time smuggling in olive oil and olives as it was, because I don’t check in my luggage. And when you get back to the US and then it’s a mess, you have to go out of security, back into security. It’s all carry on. They yell at you for having liquids and I’m like, ‘No, none of this is opened. It’s still in the duty free bags, and everything.” And 30 minutes later I got it home.

Christine: Yeah, I thought that was a nice way to showcase without being completely salesy and that was a good way to show off the booth. I loved it.

Dave: Yeah. And was especially nice for me is that it was a local merchant using Woo for their business. So being able to support them, as well as giving people delicious and nutritious swag felt like a very wholesome thing to do. So yeah, definitely props to the events in that.

So it sounds like a bunch of folks didn’t get to see any talks. So I’m going to guilt-free hold my hand up here. I was just in the hallway drag volunteering at the booth. I was at the conference the entire time. It’s not like I was sleeping in or sloping off, but I just did not get the chance to get away from conversation I was having. Did anyone see a talk, and if so, what was your best talk? No, just shaking your head. Tammie did.

Tammie: I saw some talks. Yeah, I did see some talks. I loved seeing Viola’s talk about AB testing, mainly because it wasn’t from a design perspective, it was from a marketing perspective. And I thought that was really interesting. But I think the panels were good for me, mainly due, I’m not sure, there were quite a lot, so I didn’t see all of them. It was like panel fest, but I thought it was interesting to get all the different voices, and there were some different panels as well. So I enjoyed, Partnership Panel was really interesting for me, just because it’s not something I particularly know about. So I tried to go to things I didn’t know about just because that challenged my brain. One talk that I found myself in and didn’t plan to was the, Can You… I don’t remember the title, but it was basically, can you design accessible and beautiful sites? And it was really good. It was right at the end. Forgive me, I do not remember the name of the person they were from. Is it Level Level? The agency, the accessibility agency. I am really not giving the right name.

Remkus: Rian?

Tammie: Yes, there we go.

Remkus: Rian Rietveld.

Christine: Yep. Getting the details. I am not pronouncing that. Thank you, Remkus. It was really good talk because it was balancing beauty and accessibility. And it’s one of those, you think you can’t do both. Ha ha, you can. So yeah, I thought it was just different voices, which I thought was really nice across, it didn’t seem the same people speaking, which to me across the whole of the WordCamp, I thought was really good to see. I think panels helped that because we got some diverse voices. Yeah, I went to quite a few, so I’m not going to list all the talks I went to, but I can’t be the only one that went to talks.

Remkus: In my defense. I did do a whole contributors’ day before that.

Christine: I did the contributors’ day as well.

Remkus: But I was on stage.

Dave: The talks are online, you can watch them afterwards, but the conversations, you can’t. So it’s always my favorite part of the WordCamp.

Remkus: And that’s my logic as well. I can always watch whatever’s been published, and I do. I actively look up which ones do I want to see, if I can catch it during the day, wonderful. If not, then once they are published, I am watching them.

Robert: Yeah. I did catch one WordPress Connect, but now I can’t even remember what it was. It was weeks ago.

Remkus: Made a big impression on you, didn’t it?

Robert: It did, but at the time.

Remkus: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’ll come to you.

Dave: What I’d be interested in is, who did you meet for the first time at this WordCamp Europe? That could be anyone. What impression did they leave on you? If you feel uncomfortable naming names then describe that person or the role. But I’m just curious to canvas and see, because we’re all longtime WordCamp heads. I don’t know if that’s a thing? I’m a WordCamp…?

Remkus: WordCampers. Campers I think.

Robert: Are we Pressers?

Dave: Yeah. Well yeah, but I think humans are great filters, and so if somebody’s stuck in your mind, met for the first time.

Remkus: I met James Kemp for the first time. I’ve known him on Twitter for quite a long time. It was nice getting to know the person behind the avatar, behind the Twitter account, and he built some great stuff. And it’s nice to see that he’s even more lovely of a person in real life than just the account. So yeah, shout out to him.

Dave: Anyone else?

Christine: I met Chris and Shanta from Codeable. And just absolutely delightful people, and my life is enriched just by knowing them. They are terrific. So thank you guys for allowing me to meet you.

Robert: Well, and that was the Pride Party as well, correct?

Christine: Yeah, I had met Shanta at the, I’m sorry if it’s Shanta or Shanta, but yeah, I had met her during the booth, and then we saw each other later at the party. But then that’s also where I met Chris as well, and we just connected and just had a great time.

Robert: And that was great for a lot of reasons. My crazy first time meeting was Sharon Rowlands, CEO of Newfold, who was dancing up a storm at the Pride Party.

Dave: Name-dropping the high rollers?

Robert: Well, but it was back to one of our favorite events. That’s what it was like, you’d meet a complete spectrum, and it was fantastic. And I had never met her before, so bingo at the Pride Party. How crazy is that?

Tammie: I think you really meet a lot of people for the first time. And that’s going to sound weird, but a year is a long time, and you don’t see people or you don’t see people for a couple of years, so that was something. Because sometimes you think you’ve met people in WordPress and you may have, but for me it was like the after party was the last time to meet people and connect. So there was a lot of like, “Have you met? Have you met? Talk to…” And these are the conversations maybe you are going to continue next year at WordCamp, or maybe you’ll have at WordCamp US, if you’re lucky enough to go. But a lot of the times it feels like you pause those conversations when you get on the plane and then you pick them up when you join the next WordCamp Europe. And that’s pretty special, right?

Christine: Yeah, the party that we hosted was, we were co-sponsoring with James, Team WP. And he is such a great guy and just happy to know him as well. But I’ve met him before so he doesn’t count for my list of who I met for the first time.

Dave: I’m going to call a bylaw on you there, Tammie. You can’t re-meet people for the first time. That’s like…

Tammie: You can. Every seven years of sales we generate, so that counts.

Remkus: I did meet James for the first time and he is most certainly a very honorable mention, for all the reasons that you just gave as well, Tammie.

Dave: How about you Marius? Who did you dig out the woodwork?

Marius: Yeah, as I mentioned, for me this is the highlight of the WordCamps, meeting new people and meeting old people again. This time I had the chance to talk to Rahul from rtCamp. He’s the CEO and founder of rtCamp. He’s a very generous person. We discussed a lot about the way they train and retrain their people. What programs do they have about their rtCamp WordPress course, which they have open sourced and so on. So it was a really nice encounter. And then I had the pleasure to meet Manos at the WooCommerce booth. Manos is from somewhere warm. They got acquired by WooCommerce.

Do you know the plugin, all products for WooCommerce? Yeah. So they developed this one and they got acquired and now he’s working for Automattic. So he was part of the WooCommerce team at the booth. And also I met Jack from WPFusion. This is the plugin, like the Zapier for WordPress, that would connect everything to everything. So I met him at Free News party for the first time. I really admired the plugin, the idea, the positioning. So all in all a bunch of really nice first time encounters.

Dave: I met two people that stuck in my mind, more than that, but for the sake of narrative, I’ll talk about these two. The first was somebody who does marketing for NitroPack, and I met her at the WooCommerce community event. And we talked a little bit about WordPress and then we talked a lot about books and zoology and philosophy, which was really nice. And it’s often that connection, adjacent to the work that you do, that I get out of these events as well. And the second one that sticks in my mind is Carl Alexander, who runs a doing serverless WordPress hosting business.

Remkus: YMIR.

Dave: Yeah, that one. Thank you. Not just Babel, also like Remkus GPT over here. Thank you.

Tammie: You have so many uses.

Remkus: This is just 10%. I’m just saying, this is just 10%. There’s so much more.

Dave: It’s impressive. Not even the latest version of Remkus GPT running here.

Tammie: I went to version 4, version 5’s going to be amazing.

Dave: I estimate I understood maybe three words out of every 20 to 30 that Carl mentioned, but the ones that he said were really good. And I am fascinated to see how his business does in that concept of making like an infinitely scalable WordPress cloud that people can just deploy stuff to and can cope with infinite… Obviously just an insanely smart person. Somebody had recommended that I watch some of his talks before, and they’re still in one of my many browser tabs. I’m definitely going to make an effort to look that talk up.

Remkus: I want to say that if you want to learn more about what he does, and specifically in the app, and how it works and what the potential is, subscribe to my podcast because he’s one of the next releases I’ll put out there. Wonderful, wonderful person. And just very, very smart in what he does, and how he connects stuff that you weren’t aware of that you could connect on server level, and stuff. He’s like mind-blowing. Mind-blowing. Absolutely.

Robert: And maybe get your master’s in computer science too?

Dave: Before you listen to the podcast.

Remkus: No, no. Actually I act as a translation into like, “Okay, so hold on. What does that mean?” Before we move on to him explaining the next portion of what the service offers. But yeah, I co-signed that one. Carl’s a great person on many, many levels.

Tammie: One of the things I think is interesting here is, sometimes, so for me, I just started a new job before WordCamp Europe, so I also got to meet a lot of my work colleagues. And that happens quite commonly in WordPress because remote work, all these amazing situations. So I think sometimes these events are pivotal for people’s lives. It’s the first speaking, it’s the first connection. If you think back to, I didn’t see it there, but I wasn’t looking for it, there used to be, I assuming there still was a jobs board. That used to be one of the things-

Remkus: There wasn’t this time.

Tammie: Oh, I miss the jobs board, mainly because I feel that so many people in WordPress have got their jobs, throughout history, because of that, as well. But yeah, it’s something about those connections you make, right? Maybe you started a job, maybe it’s your first work colleagues, so yeah, there’s a lot of firsts and things like that at WordCamps, which is exciting.

Dave: So we’re coming around to the top of the hour now and you’ve all been extremely generous with both your time and your sharing. So I thought maybe the last question should just be something that you’re looking forward to about WordCamp Europe 2024. It’s going to be in Turin, Italy, which is awesome.

Christine: Yeah, I’m looking forward to the food. Sorry.

Dave: Is anyone not going to say the food? Or should we just have that as-

Christine: Run right over your narrative and just let’s get the food out there. Just let’s go.

Tammie: In a positive way, I think we need to learn some lessons. We need to adjust the questions. We need to give more opportunity for people to not have to have questions. There’s been some, normally it’s criticisms without feedback, how that can be taken into action. And I feel this time the change in the community was, “Hey, this is something that we could adjust, but this is how we could adjust it.” So a good example was, there was a really nice Twitter thread where it was, “Here’s what we could do, rather than just having a problem with questions.” So things like that.

Remkus: Oh, yeah, Felix Arntz.

Tammie: Yeah. Thanks, Remkus GPT. And also, I know you’re saying the food inclusive, but there are adjustments we can do with things like that for people with different dietary requirements. There are different things we can do for after parties. There’s all different types of people of different ages and different varieties in this community, and reflecting that in our events is something to consider, as we go forward. And I am very excited to see that in the next iteration of WordCamp Europe, because I feel that we’re getting there in all aspects and we get better each time.

Remkus: I’m not going to mention the food as the thing, because we go to Italy quite a lot, at least once a year, so I know what the food is and I’ll enjoy it. But there’s more highlights, I think I’m going to enjoy actually driving through the Alps, going in there. Just the mountains, I love the mountains. And Torino is right off the mountains, heading to the valley, that whole area is just a gorgeous area, which I haven’t really explored all that much. And the rest is just the default stuff. Like Tammie says, the small improvements here and there, but mostly again to reconnect, to reignite.

Robert: I can’t wait to find out if it’s Turin or Torino.

Remkus: So the Italian name is Torino.

Dave: Like Munich and Munchen.

Remkus: Munchen, yeah.

Tammie: I wonder who’s going to bring a skateboard to go around that, because it’s a racing track. So can people bring skateboards and go around the racing track? That could be fun. Sorry.

Robert: Yeah, to second Remkus’ point about reconnect, re-engage. It is just great doing it at WordCamp Europe.

Dave: Yeah, I’m excited to watch how the community and the ecosystem evolve. I’m excited to meet friends and people I know, and learn about their successes over this next year. That’s always one of the best things, is just seeing people make it. And I feel privileged to have been part of their ecosystem long enough to have seen people starting off with small businesses, with back packet logos, and now they’re just absolutely smashing it. And they’ve built a great livelihood for their families, their colleagues, and they’ve had a great impact to the ecosystem. So I’m looking forward to seeing more of that please, everyone.

Remkus: So let it be written, so let it be done.

Dave: Make it so. All right, well look, this is a fun chat. And again, thank you all for your time and your energy and your care to come on and share your experiences, and I’m sure we’ll see you all again on another episode of Do the Woo.