Inclusivity, Community Trust, and Fair Pay for Freelancers

Birgit:
Hi, I am your host, Birgit, and we are here with another episode of The WordPress Way, where we dive deep into the heart and soul of WordPress, exploring the cutting edge and the incredible people shaping its future. I have two lovely guests today on our show, and I would love for them to introduce themselves. I have onboard Megan and Mike. Please, Megan, tell our audience a bit about yourself.

Megan:
Hi. Yeah, so I’m Megan Rose. I’ve been pretty active in the WordPress community since around 2014, so people might know me from there. I’m based in northeast Ohio, and I work with the WordPress community here, as well as on the WordCamp US organizing team and the Incident Response Team. Alternatively, people might know me from Codeable, where I’m the Head of Community.

Birgit:
That’s impressive. To explain to the audience, you and I met previously at several WordCamps, and it’s really good to see that someone like you is also part of the Incident Response Team, which plays a crucial role in improving DEIB. Mike, would you mind telling the audience a bit about yourself?

Mike:
Sure. I also work at Codeable alongside Megan, and we’re on the same team. That’s how I ended up here—we’re recently coworkers, and she just asked if I’d be willing to come on. Let’s see, my background is not in WordPress. The majority of my background—and my degree, in fact—is in social work, but I also have a few years of experience in sales and other customer-facing roles. In my, I guess, “free time”—or rather, not-work-related time—I’ve also been a volunteer. It’s called a Harassment and Grievance Officer, doing similar code of conduct work for a local community organization.

Birgit:
Wow, really impressive. It’s interesting to learn more about coworkers while recording a podcast. As Mike said, I also recently joined Codeable within the support team, but nevertheless, I invited you both because we share a common passion for improving diversity and fostering inclusion. Mike, you mentioned the code of conduct work—how do you approach that best? For me, English is not my first language, so sometimes it’s difficult to articulate myself clearly. Please bear with me. I’ve prepared some questions and would love to hear from you, Megan. Can you share your experience with community management and the strategies you’ve found effective in fostering an inclusive environment? You mentioned you’re on the Incident Response Team within the global WordPress community. Could you share some of your experiences and what you encounter daily?

Megan:
Yeah, sure. I’ll start by saying my experiences are my own and not necessarily shared by others at Codeable, but when I first got involved in the WordPress community, it felt a little like a boys’ club. There were times when community members would say things that made me uncomfortable, and I even had someone slide into my DMs at one point. So, I knew I had some work ahead of me.

Because I already had experience handling code of conduct issues and felt confident tackling these kinds of challenges—and with the support of management—I dove right into laying the groundwork for a more welcoming environment, especially for women and gender minorities. One of the first things I did was introduce a code of conduct process. I actually borrowed heavily from the WordPress community’s code of conduct.

In WordPress, there are two codes of conduct: one is event-specific, used at WordCamps, and the other is the overarching one that was introduced, I believe, in 2020, when things moved online due to the pandemic. The shift to online spaces made it clear we needed a more comprehensive approach. I adapted that structure and began reporting at the end of the year on how many incidents were dealt with, anonymizing the data for privacy. I think that helped build trust, especially within gender minority and LGBTQ+ groups, who had previously experienced discomfort in the community.

We also made adjustments to our termination procedures, requiring a staff vote, and moved towards more education-focused responses rather than purely punitive measures. I’m proud of my ability to have one-on-one conversations with people who may have said or done something that made someone else feel unwelcome. Often, these are long conversations, but they help change minds and foster better understanding.

Birgit:
That’s really interesting. You mentioned the global WordPress community, but you also work with Codeable, fostering its expert community, which exists within the broader WordPress ecosystem. Given the male-dominated nature of this field and the cultural diversity, how do you navigate conversations about inclusive language and respect? For example, when I attended the CloudFest Hackathon, I worked on improving the check for inclusive language within WordPress. Though the project didn’t turn out as I envisioned, I learned a lot about cultural perspectives. How do you raise awareness when issues occur, especially when different people might have different boundaries or triggers?

Megan:
Yeah, I think goal number one when I first started was to earn the community’s trust and respect. That’s not something that happens overnight. Everyone’s worked somewhere where a new person comes in and starts making big changes, and it can feel off-putting. So, I didn’t want to be that person. I spent a lot of time just having casual, one-on-one conversations, getting to know people, and building trust.

When people have experienced negative things in the past and reported them with no real outcome, there’s a silencing effect. They’re less likely to report things again in the future. I made it a priority to show that there was a process in place and that it would be followed fairly. In some cases, people reported incidents to me directly, expressing fear that following the formal process might negatively impact the income of the person they were reporting. It’s a complicated situation when you’re afraid of affecting someone’s livelihood. This can make it harder for people to come forward, and I think that hesitation exists within the WordPress space as well.

Birgit:
Yes, thank you for sharing that insight. As you mentioned, some people may be hesitant to report incidents because they feel their concerns aren’t serious enough, or they fear consequences. But everyone has different boundaries, and we need to have systems that allow people to express discomfort or request mediation. One of the things I love about the WordPress community is that, overall, we care for each other. Mike, as someone newer to the WordPress community, but with a background in social work, could you share your observations about the WordPress ecosystem, especially compared to your previous experiences?

Mike:
Sure. Like I said, most of my background is in social work, which definitely helps in customer service roles. My direct experience with WordPress or open-source communities has been limited, but as a teenager, I was really into Mozilla and the launch of Firefox. I’ve always been more interested in the philosophical side of open source rather than the software development side.

From an outside perspective, I try to bring a sense of non-judgmental acceptance, something I learned from social work. This helps when dealing with code of conduct situations where people make mistakes, but that doesn’t mean they’re bad people. Mistakes happen. I try to approach these situations with empathy.

When we talk about diversity in open source, especially WordPress, I think there’s a bit of a contradiction. WordPress exists within capitalism, and as long as a handful of companies control WordPress, we can’t fully democratize publishing the way we might hope.

Birgit:
You bring up a really interesting point. There’s always that tension between the community-driven aspect of WordPress and the capitalist environment it operates within. I remember discussions about creating a governance board for WordPress—there’s still some optimism around that. From your perspective, how can we reconcile these contradictions and push for more transparency and fairness, especially when it comes to pay equity?

Mike:
Yeah, we’ve talked about this before. I believe transparency is crucial, especially when it comes to pay. It’s easy for companies to say they care about diversity, but it means nothing if there’s a significant pay disparity that goes unaddressed. Gender-based pay disparities, for example, are still very common, and they’re not something that should be shrugged off as someone else’s problem. It’s our problem.

Take a company like Buffer, for example. They’ve publicly listed every employee’s name and salary on their website. That kind of transparency is how you show you’re serious about fairness. In the U.S., it’s illegal for companies to prevent employees from discussing their salaries, but people are still discouraged from doing so. If you really care about diversity and inclusion, that transparency has to be there, and it starts with talking to your coworkers.

Birgit:
That’s a powerful point, and it connects to the broader conversation about company culture. It’s not just about what you do as an individual but about creating systemic changes. Megan, you mentioned some great strategies earlier about de-escalation and setting boundaries. Would you mind expanding on that?

Megan:
Sure. De-escalation is one of my favorite things—it feels like an art form to me. I try to blend it seamlessly into conversations, often using humor to diffuse tension. If things get heated, especially during a video call, I might make a joke like, “Well, we all know politicians always have our best interests at heart, right?” It’s a light way of finding common ground, without getting preachy. Humor works in face-to-face or video interactions but might not be appropriate in something like Slack.

When humor doesn’t work, I’m comfortable with a hard pivot. If someone’s talking about something I don’t want to engage with, I might just say, “Okay, let’s move on.” You can also ask people about their personal interests—like how their kids are doing in school. It helps shift the conversation without creating conflict.

Birgit:
That’s such a useful approach, and it really resonates with me. And speaking of personal milestones, I have to mention—today was my grandson’s first day of school. He’s six years old, and I’m so proud.

Mike, to wrap things up, could you share some tips on improving written communication, especially in support roles, where you often only have text to work with?

Mike:
Absolutely. One of the biggest things I’ve noticed is that people often aren’t clear in their communication because they assume others understand the context. This can be especially true with native speakers, who might use casual language or euphemisms that aren’t clear to everyone. My advice is to always draft your message, then reread it from the perspective of someone who doesn’t know what you’re thinking. Precision is key—being direct and clear avoids misunderstandings.

Another tip is to focus on being non-judgmental, especially when addressing mistakes. We all make errors, but that doesn’t define us as people. It’s important to approach situations with empathy and understanding.

Birgit:
Thank you both for sharing your insights and personal stories. It’s been a truly enlightening conversation. I hope everyone listening takes a moment to reflect on what we’ve discussed—pat yourselves on the back for the work you’re doing, but also remember to take care of your own mental health. Megan, Mike, I’m so grateful for your time today.

And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in to The WordPress Way. We hope today’s conversation has sparked new ideas and inspired you to engage more deeply within the WordPress community and your work environment. DEIB isn’t just about numbers; it’s about making real changes that foster belonging and respect for everyone. Keep the conversation going by sharing this episode, and join us again next month as we explore more important DEIB topics and meet the leaders driving change. Don’t forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, so you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep pushing the envelope and doing WordPress the right way.