Acquisitions, Open Source and Staying Grounded

Ronald: Hi, welcome to another WooCommerce Roundtable. My name is Ronald and I’m here joined with my panelist, Robbie Adair and Bob himself, BobWP.

Memories from State of the Word

So today we are going to talk about the State of the Word, which happened a couple of weeks ago. And talking about the memories of your trip to New York, to be there in person at State of the Word, how was it? what are your good personal memories from that event?

Robbie: Well, one, I love New York, I’m a big fan of New York, I go all the time. I love Broadway, and so I go to New York quite often, but I will say it was a very different trip to New York for me because I called it my bubble trip. I mean, literally I was in a bubble, I was at the hotel with these group of people, and then I was at the State of the Word, and then I was on the plane going home. It was a very different trip to New York for me, because I usually do so many things in New York. But it was great because a big group of us had gotten together ahead of time to say where are we going to stay. So we were all staying at the very same hotel. I had the meals with the exact same people in the exact same restaurant, every meal I was there. I was like, “Wow, this is kind of interesting.” But it was so fantastic.

Ronald: How many restaurants are there in New York?

Robbie: I know, right.

Ronald: Goodness.

Robbie: Right. Bob did take me to one extra restaurant the day before I was flying out, so that was nights, it was across the street from the hotel. We ventured out all the way across the block. But it was so nice to meet a lot of people that I had never met in person, in person, and have a few minutes to sit down and chat with them. I had some people show me demos of their plugins and things like that in person. It’s just so different. I mean, I’ve met a lot of these people and many times online over this last couple of years, but it was just nice to actually sit down and be able to see the full body language of someone, to be able to look at the same screen at the same time and comment on it. It was very nice, it really was. Now are there nerves, as we’ve just talked about before? Yes, you’re always nervous about these kind of things, but I did feel that we had a nice little bubble going there and so I think that gave us a little bit of a comfort level.

Ronald: Yeah. Apart from the actual speech that Matt did, was there a lot of opportunity to network and mingle before and after?

Robbie: At the hotel we definitely were, because we were being down in the lobby. Mark was very gracious and he showed me a demo of WS form, which was amazing to be able to see that demo, ask him questions while he was doing that. I talked to several other people too, mainly we met in the lobby at the restaurant there. We had our meals together like I said, and we got to talk about plans for the future on some things, I talked to some people obviously about doing some courses for us and I was training and things like that.

And so there was networking that went on at the hotel I would say. At the event itself, it was pretty much, we got in and we listened to Matt’s talk. I don’t think we were there very long because back at the hotel, back in our same restaurant, we had an event there that we were going to. And so there was a little bit of networking afterwards at the State of the Word, I mean, I got to talk to Matt and a couple of other people, but otherwise I felt like most of the networking happened with whoever you were with at your hotels there.

The State of the Word WooTrain Trip

Ronald: Yeah. Bob, your trip was totally different. Probably the opposite from a fast fly in and an out visit to New York. Yours took a couple of weeks. It’s well documented of course, how you went by train. So I don’t think we have to repeat the whole sequence of events and the whole trip, but just some of the good things that you take away from your trip to experience the State of the Word in person.

Bob: Yeah. Well, for those that don’t know what I did, I basically took cross country Amtrak, and if you’re not in the United States, that’s our rail system here. So it was a total of about eight days round trip, so I traveled, I was on the train probably almost close to six days of those eight days. I was in New York two days. The centerpiece was State of the Word, which was a three hour event. But I thought, “How can I kind of bring the community along?” that was my idea. How can I make this about kind of keeping people connected, and updated, and just a different experience. It was kind of a wild and weird idea I had, because I thought I’d never think of something like this.

So, most of the experiences were around everybody I connected with, I mean, and some of it was by chance. When you get on a train and you discover that on the same car is someone you’ve known in the WordPress space for years. And this just was a happen chance that we run into each other. And we ended up doing a podcast on the train and having a lunch and a breakfast together. On the way there I stopped in Chicago for layover and we had a nice Chicago WordPress get together with about 10 people. I got off the train, we took the taxi, actually Mike Demo from Codeable, came on the train early with me and we did a podcast. He went from St. Paul to Chicago, which was about seven to eight hours.

We arrived late, two hours, and we ran to the Hard Rock and had this great dinner. And I was with them for two hours, and I left and got back on the train. Got in New York and I can say exactly what Robbie said. We were all staying at the same hotel so it was a cool little bubble of just people reconnecting with people you hadn’t seen in a long time, and I was able to do some podcasts before State of the Word and after State of the Word. Actually in my hotel room, which was kind of bizarre. And Robbie and Robert interviewed Cory, they locked me in the closet and they decided to take over the podcast, and they had a great time doing that. And then on the way back, I reflected a bit more on State of the Word, I stopped in Chicago, met up with Zach who is another co-host.

So the whole thing was this very different community connection for eight days. I mean, when I got to the event it was great, and like Robbie said, maybe there was about an hour, we did have a thing going on and an hour of networking. And the thing I think I noticed most about it was Matt Mullenweg, and he was in his zone. I’d never really seen him with a small group of people, and this is kind of his WordPress peeps. I mean, you always see him at the large conferences and everybody wants a piece of him. I’ve never seen him laugh, smile and talk so much with people, it was a different Matt than I’ve ever seen at a WordCamp.

And I think that intimacy of a smaller group, although you wouldn’t want that moving forward because you want to be able to get back to normal WordCamps and say the word. I think we all experienced something that unfortunately a lot of people maybe will never experience, but that smaller collection of people that came from different parts of the country, some of them were New York natives and just being there for that amount of time, and yeah. I’ve been doing this for 13 years going to WordCamps and this was the most unique experience I’ve ever had traveling to any kind of WordPress event in a lot of different ways.

Ronald: Like a small intimate gig that you enjoy and it’s the totally different atmosphere.

Robbie: Yeah.

Ronald: That’s great.

Robbie: I agree with Bob though. Matt was definitely in his element. He seemed very relaxed. He got to visit with lots of people. It was great. I did see him at WordCamp US, and it’s so big, but I had also met Matt years ago, I think it was 2013. He actually came and spoke at our Joomla World conference. He came as well as Doris from Drupal came. So we had the three guys they’re up there, talking about the three CMSs and it was really cool, and I got to meet him there, which was a very small event kind of like this. And he was also just very chatty and relaxed. So it was kind of cool. I got a picture with him again. So I have a picture with him back in 2013 and then at this one. It’s kind of cool, different conferences.

What Stood Out at State of the Word

Ronald: Yeah. And what has happened to WordPress of course. But then let’s also put WooCommerce back into it. So in terms of WordPress and WooCommerce, a lot of new announcements were made and are there any of these announcements you’re quite excited about, or even nervous about? Robbie is anything that stick out for you?

Robbie: Wow. And there were a lot of announcements you are correct. Quite honestly, I was really excited, I’m also kind of a little bit of a nerd about photography and things like that. So I was super excited about hearing about the creative common surge coming over under WordPress’s hat. And so I was really excited about that. I just think is a great coarse to maintain that and keep it going, as well as I think it’ll be a fabulous resource. And as it gets more integrated into Gutenberg and things like that, it’s going to be amazing. And I think just as Matt kind of indicated in his talk, that this will expand Gutenberg outside of the WordPress. I mean, it’s already in Drupal, you can run Gutenberg and Drupal, and I think we’ll see it in more places now. And so I think that to me is a real exciting thing because it’s kind of taking the WordPress, and kind of starting to needle it out into other areas in other spaces. So I think that’s a really cool thing.

Ronald: I’ll go to Bob, in terms of the photography and the vision that he shared with us, I think it’s something that of course has been building for quite some years, but it’s so nice to see that, and have a little window of what that could be in a couple of years time. And it goes beyond WordPress, it goes beyond the platform or the plugins or the code. And I think it’s a beautiful thing that could happen.

Bob: Having been at almost every State of the Word in person, it’s always great to see how many contributors, the growth of WordPress, the technical stuff. I kind of go back to what Robbie said, and also that whole open verse that they’re starting. And I think what resonated with a lot of people is… and Robbie is reflective of that as well, is the new reaching out to… like bringing it in, what she was talking about, the open verse where they’re going to be setting that up, where people could submit images, it’s the new innovative stuff.

I mean, it’s always innovative, Gutenberg and 5.9, and everything going on technically, but I think that’s what excites everybody. A little bit more is that kind of, I don’t want to say more global WordPress by bringing in other stuff, and the growth of it that way rather than just what you notice with the growth of the tool WordPress, and what the next version is, so again, that’s why I liked it.

What about Woo in 2022?

And it was interesting, and I’ll just bring it up with Woo, since he didn’t mention Woo in the Q&A, I had to go up there. And I kind of put Matt on the spot because I know Woo is not his huge… I mean, he’s looking at all this stuff, the broader picture. So I know where to step when I talked to Matt with Woo, I don’t want to get into the specifics and say, “What do you think about blocks?” or “What do you think about this?” But so I did it general, I just wanted his impression of what he thought, or what his vision was for Woo. And what I thought was interesting was, he was very generic about how he wants to see Gutenberg working more, because he’s all about Gutenberg, and I think he compared it to, “We need more Gutenberg, we need more Cowbell.”

So it was a general answer, but it was almost a spot on answer I maybe anticipated and also hoped he would say, because just talking to all the builders. I mean, there’s always that undertone of, “Well, it’d be nice if WooCommerce worked better with Gutenberg since this is where everything is going.” So it was very satisfying, I mean to hear him at least looking at it that way, and kind of making it his wishlist of what Woo and Gutenberg would be doing. I had to poke at him, he probably knew it was coming when I was up there.

Robbie: I think everyone expected that whenever you went to the mic Bob.

Ronald: I don’t think he would’ve come up on there, what’s happening with Jetpack for example.

Robbie: Yeah. And by the way, one thing I was thinking about whenever Bob was talking about that too though is that, yes, I feel like the Gutenberg is something that Matt sees as reaching out into other areas and which pulls people back to the WordPress world right? But I will say, I feel like WooCommerce even though it doesn’t reach out in other areas, I do feel like WooCommerce was actually one of the biggest draws for people outside of the WordPress world to come to WordPress, because of the lack of really good e-commerce plugins in the other CMSs out there. So I always said that WooCommerce is one of the reasons why a lot of people move to WordPress from other platforms, always I’ve said that.

Ronald: I absolutely agree with you.

Robbie: And so I do think the integration with Gutenberg is going to make this both directions now, right?

The WordPress project growing too much

Ronald: Absolutely. You’ve been going to State of the Word for quite a few years Bob, and I know Robbie you as well, you’ve heard Matt speak a few years back together with the other Open-source founders. Do you think that WordPress as a project is becoming too big? Because now we talk about hope of us, a few years ago was Gutenberg. WooCommerce is integral part of this ecosystem that the announcements and the innovation that it’s… Especially for newcomers becomes too big and not quite sure what to make of it all, are we talking WordPress, are we talking Web 3.0, what’s going on?

Robbie: By the way, sorry Ronald, that question that you’re asking me, I have to share with you because I’ve been getting more involved in WordPress. I mean, I’ve been involved in Joomla, somewhat in Drupal and automatic, and then WordPress for a few years now, especially after State of the Word you get, come back and you’re like, “Woo” you’re so excited, you want to get more involved. And the more I get involved in more teams, I’m like, “Wow, even I’m hitting a little overload.” It is huge, the WordPress ecosystem is huge. And there’s so many people involved, the teams are really large, they’re great. I think this is good, you have so many volunteers that are involved, but wow, it is a little daunting and overwhelming for new people.

Acquisitions in 2021

Ronald: Sorry to interrupt you, but you’ve said that it’s so large. There was a screenshot he shared about statistic on when it comes to acquisitions. And I think that really for me was a very obvious sign or status of where WordPress is certainly at in 2021.

Robbie: Yeah. Absolutely. But I did like what he shared because I think he wanted to address that some people were a little worried that there were so many acquisitions, that we were starting to make big monopolies as it were. But it’s happening everywhere in tech, he’s absolutely right in bringing that up. It’s everywhere in tech. I mean, I don’t know if you watch outside of the WordPress world. It’s happening in all the platform worlds, it’s happening just in technology in general. I mean, it’s much easier for a company if they’ve got the funds to buy another company than it is to create that product. And so we’re just seeing a lot of it, it’s just happening. So I was glad that he pointed out that this isn’t unique to the WordPress world, it is everywhere.

Now, we’re seeing it in the WordPress world, for sure. I mean, it’s like every day I’m looking at Twitter like, “Who bought who today.” But it is large though back to that point, it is a very large community. Is it too large? I don’t think so. I mean, I think it just gives you longevity the larger your community is. And so I think that that’s a good thing. Whenever community start to dwindle, that’s when you start getting worried, developers start getting worried about their products, things like that.

Ronald: But you have the smaller ecosystems, you have the WooCommerce ecosystem and you’ll soon have to metaverse within Gutenberg and full site editor. There’s a mini community and even certain form builders. It’s not that you can’t be part of one if you’re part of one, but you’re part of multiple circles, ecosystems as part of that. But to say, “I am everything about WordPress” that’s almost impossible now because it’s just simply too big.

Robbie: Correct.

Thanks to our Pod Friends Mindsize and YITH

Take WordPress into smaller bites

Bob: I mean, when I look at two things, I look at, first the kind of people more involved with WordPress like us and the kind of the deeper community. I don’t think it can get too large. If people are overwhelmed, I hate to say it, that’s their fault, because they’re trying to grasp too much. They’re trying to wrap their brain around everything, and do everything, and be everything. Yeah, you can have the general knowledge of, “This is happening, this is happening, this is cool.” understanding what’s going on, but when you actually put in your efforts, whether it’s contributing, or your business, or whatever, you’re going to have a piece of it that you’re going to focus on. And that piece is going to be, whether it’s your plugin or whatever, you need to be aware of everything else, but you don’t need to be totally involved in every aspect of it. It’s like anything that grows, I mean, anything even in our personal lives. We know everything that we can do tech-wise to our homes and to our lives.

If we tried to take every little piece of that and constantly work it into our lives, we go drive ourselves mad, so we pick and choose. So the community needs to do that.

What the majority of WordPress users don’t care about

And the majority of people that are the users, they’re using WordPress, they don’t give a whatever about most of this stuff. They don’t care about acquisitions, they care about an acquisition if a plugin they’re using is bought and that person really screws it up.

And they’re going to care about it. They don’t care that, if that plugin continues to work wonderfully, and everything that’s a little piece of a tool they’re using, a lot of this stuff, the drama, everything we talk about, they’re going to make that decision how much they’re going to get into it. WordPress is a tool, they know that community is there to help them, and they may use that through a Facebook group or whatever, but they’re not obsessed with it like a lot of us are.

Ronald: But it creates opportunities as well. You have now the big business being bought up by some of the hosting companies, and you have this big gap in the middle of solopreneurs and developers that now want to start to create products, and maybe at a more competitive rate than the bigger ones. So I see there’s a lot of movement now that some bigger companies have been brought up. So it’s an exciting time as well.

Bob: Yeah. And, and I think back of when I used to use Microsoft word, I used it a lot way back in the day out and when it was pre-WordPress or whatever, but I didn’t care about Microsoft, I didn’t pay attention to what Microsoft was doing. I didn’t read everything, it was a tool I used, it did its job, and I was good with that. So I never thought of it, “Is Microsoft becoming too big?” No. What does that really matter? I’m typing my little document here.

Robbie: And I do think that Bob hit the nail on the head there, is that we have way more WordPress and WooCommerce users out there than we have members of the community by far. I mean, and the community’s big, so just imagine how many users are out there. We definitely have a lot more users.

Ronald: Yeah, absolutely. Is there anything on the roadmap that worries you, that you think, “I really ought to spend some time looking into that.” For example the full site editing, or any aspects of the Gutenberg that you really ought to get into.

Full site editing, the talk of the town

Robbie: I knew you were going to say full site editing because I think that’s what everybody was thinking, whatever you were like, “Is there anything in this that you’re a little worried about?”

Everybody is nervous about that, it’s like, “I’ve seen a few little videos, but I’m not quite sure how to do it yet.” Especially for WooCommerce. I mean, it’s an exciting time, but at the same time also quite nerve-racking.

Robbie: I don’t know, I have a little split on it. And this is what I mean by that, is one, do I think it could be a really awesome and cool thing? Absolutely I do. And when I looked at that one, I think, “Oh geez, well, what about the themes or the page builders that people are using, or my clients are using or whatever,” Do I say, “Well, maybe we should just look at this and not use those.” But I don’t think so. When I do think we might though is, so if you’re working with Gutenberg to the point that you’re trying to do ReactDOM blocks so that you can go to React Native to make mobile apps very easily and things like that, I can see how now, “Hmm, this could be really a cool concept.”

More cowbell, more Gutenberg

Then if I can do my full site editing with Gutenberg and do everything with blocks, it’s going to make my integration over to the mobile app world a little easier. And so for me, that’s where I started seeing, “Hey, wait, let me think about this just a minute.” So with some of our clients and certain unique positions, I think this might be something we definitely look at for them. But then for other clients, I think maybe it might not be what’s the best answer for them because maybe what their best answer was, was they use Elementor, they’re comfortable in it, and they know how to do the landing pages that they set up or whatever it might be. So, for some of them, I think it would be taking away a tool that they’re comfortable with and that it might be confusing, but I’m really excited about it like I said, because I do see how it could make it more integrated with other things such as mobile applications and such. That really has me excited and really interested in taking a deeper dive into it.

Ronald: That’s an interesting thought actually because the one I was thinking about was for example, more in the marketing and using blocks for newsletters, which I think Matt used as an example as well, and how you could extend that in into other platforms, because then you learn one skill and use it on many other platform. So there is a lot of opportunity there as well.

Robbie: And same for WooCommerce right? WooCommerce gets more integrated with Gutenberg, Gutenberg allows you to do ReactDOM to React Native. And now I’m taking my e-commerce to mobile applications if I want to, or other types of applications, shouldn’t just use mobile application, but other connected environments.

Ronald: But before that happens, we will get frustrated and we will say, “Why, why, why? Bring back to classic”. So we have a bit of frustration ahead of us, that’s one thing I’m pretty sure about.

Robbie: I will say I’m glad that I came in heavy after Gutenberg was introduced, and so I never had the, “Oh, I want to go back to classic.” I never had that, which I’m kind of glad about. I mean, and I understand other people’s frustrations because they were used to something, but personally I like Gutenberg, I’m a big fan. So, I was glad I didn’t have that torn feeling.

Ronald: Yeah. The moment I realized is when my eldest son was using Gutenberg like there was nothing else, and he just gets on with it as if it’s… It’s always been like that. Actually that’s a really good point because if you don’t know better, it’s the norm.

Versions of the WordPress community

Robbie: Bob, was it you who did the ages of people coming into WordPress as it were, whatever, the stages?

Ronald: The eras.

Robbie: The eras. Yeah. I was definitely post the Gutenberg. Well, I had done some things with WordPress before that, but it was pretty minimal, and so I worked in the classic editor as well, but when I really started digging in Gutenberg was there and I just embraced it immediately because I was like, “Well, that’s what they say is future, let me just do this.” And I enjoyed it.

Ronald: What era are you Bob?

Bob: I think I was in version 2.0, according to my thing because I-

Ronald: Is that a prehistoric?

Bob: Yeah. I started in 2007 but I got really in the community, so I was more involved with the community 2010. And that’s when we talked about… I think that the podcast is coming out this week or next week on Post Status, where David and I talked about that, we really got deep into it. It was a lot of fun talking about the community. I mean, Yoast gravity forms, all these ones came out, the ones have been around a long time. And when I talked to a lot of people it’s like, “Oh yeah, around 2010 is when I really started getting into WordPress.” So there’s this era there that I think was pretty defining.

And with your question on the roadmap, I loved Robbie’s answer because it was perfect, because for me, I’m more empathetic when it comes to the roadmap because everybody I deal with has other concerns, or whether they’re embracing it. When they embrace it, I say, “Great.” when they’re concerned because of their product or they have 5,000 clients and they’re worried about some upheaval. So, I’m more empathetic that way. Personally, I don’t give a damn what happens, I roll with the punches. It’s like, “Gutenberg? ‘Yeah. Okay. I’ll learn that’.” When I had the site redone, they did it on using Beaver builder, and I pause for a moment thinking, “Well, should it be Gutenberg, should it be blocks.” and all these stuff. But I also relied on the company that was doing it for me to know the best solution and that wasn’t going to be a solution that would be defunct in a matter of 12 months or something.

If you are in the tech world, embrace change

So, I just went with their recommendation for what they thought and what I wanted, what they thought I needed and what I wanted. I’m not stressed about anything, maybe it’s my age, I don’t know what it is, but that’s how I’ve been in the WordPress space, I go with the flow. My overall opinion of it is, we’re in the tech world, and if you can’t embrace change and at some point start using it more or at least be a voice to make it go in the right direction, then you’re in a wrong space, because if anything change is inevitable in this space, and maybe some people disagree with that change.

Ronald: It’s worrying though if you fall asleep for a year isn’t it? And I wake up and certainly a lot of things have changed. That’s probably what happened to you Robbie with moving away a little bit from WordPress, coming back and then realizing so much has happened. And it’s a quick steep learning curve.

Robbie: You know what, that is the overall technology world. I remember when I was first learned coding, I was learning Pascal and BASIC. Now I just dated myself really badly there, but anyway, and then I kind of stepped away from development for a few years, and then like, “Oh, let me get interested in this again.” and when I did, it all switched to object oriented, which is a totally different concept. And so I felt like years and years and years behind, and it was totally different. So, you step away for a year, two years, and come back into anything technology wise, and it’s a new world. I think that though probably we like that people that stay in technology. I mean, we’re never bored that’s for sure.

Ronald: Yeah. No, absolutely. It definitely keeps us active.

Bob: Robbie, that makes me think it’s interesting because in the 1980s I took computer programming at a community college and I was learning Pascal, Assembly, COBOL, BASIC, and it seemed like there was maybe one other one, but I took one year of it and I hated it. It was the most nightmares year I ever existed. But at that point I learned two things, I learned how to be very adaptive with technology, and I learned that, “Okay, I’m entering something that… this is going to change all the time.” I mean, I could sense. And I remember our instructor at the end of the course said, “Thank you all for learning this, in six months everything you learned is going to be obsolete. Good luck.” I thought, “Okay, this is the world I’m entering when I get into computers at that point.” And I’d been in it already previous to that a while. But it’s like Robbie said.

Ronald: It’s was like any language, if you don’t practice it, you don’t keep it up, you forget about it. Then you go on holiday to… Vacation, sorry, that’s what you call it, vacation to Paris then you want to order something and it’s like, “I should really know how to do it and in French.” But yeah, of course it’s similar.

Web 3.0, WTF

So, final thoughts on Web 3.0 that there’s a lot of talk about. Do you know what it actually means? Can you paint a picture of what that means to match out a little bit of sort of a decentralized of information, and we all own it and share it, is that something that occupies your minds at the moment? Robbie I’d see you wondering.

Robbie: Does it occupy my mind? No, not at the moment, really. And can I describe it? Well, good grief. Let me give you like five different definitions that I’ve found online. I don’t know if anybody can truly define it just yet, in my opinion, because I hear different things from different people about it. It’s one of those things I’m not losing sleep over it, but I do try to read and keep up because just like we were just talking, everything changes so quickly in our world, we have to try and keep up with things. I mean, when blockchain was introduced and things like that, it was just like, “Okay, let me try to wrap my head around this complex subject that no one hardly understands, and then let me apply it to all these different things like cryptocurrency and NFTs and yada yada.”

To me it’s the way I learn, I always like to get the core concepts of things, the foundation before I can learn all the other items. Before I got into buying any crypto, I wanted to learn about blockchain technology first, so I would understand the underlying technology that they’re basing this on. And so I’m just going to say I have a best intermediate, but probably more beginner of knowledge of blockchain. I understand the core concepts and everything. As we start talking about Web 3.0, and that’s part of it, I know, but it feels like it’s a bigger concept than that, so I definitely would not be the one to provide the definition of what I think it is at this moment because I would just be giving you a Robbiepedia entry and we probably don’t want that on Do the Woo.

Ronald: Quite. Yeah. That would be interesting though. Bob, how do you link that with WooCommerce? That’s going to be a trick for you though.

Bob: Oh man. I don’t know. I’m just hoping I learn some of it from my guess. The rest of is got to come by osmosis because right now I’ll be honest with you, I’m baffled with it. It’s kind of like Robbie said, I hear all this stuff, NFTs drawing left and right, and I’m like, “There’s certain concepts I can grasp, but the interest isn’t maybe quite there yet, for me.”

Ronald: It’s very far in the future, isn’t it?

Bob: It’s like, “Okay, it’ll come when it needs to come.” I think next month we have somebody that actually started a plugin where you can take stuff on WordPress sites through all that monies and… I don’t know, see I can’t even explain it. And he’ll be on with Brad and I, and Brad’s really into that. So I’m going to let them go at it. But hopefully that will be somewhat educational probably to myself and to listeners.

Ronald: I wonder if we come to time when we look at Cart, and Checkout, and pressing that pay button. This is that moment where you say, “Oh, do you remember the days when we had a Cart page, to do something and take things out of the cart.” whether that’s going to be totally reinvented with just immediate purchase pretty much.”

Bob: Yeah. That’s a good question. I guess you could go back 10 years and say, “Where were we at then?” And you think, “Who knows what’s to come?”

Ronald: Yeah. In a way that hasn’t changed much.

Bob: If we just think about buying stuff and we buy it, which could be scary, something like Alexa, but through the brain. I don’t know.

Robbie: My neuro chip, I’m going to start purchasing some things.

Ronald: Ah, yeah. The headphones that Bob are wearing, it’s like, “Yeah” instantly it’s purchased. So I think we’re going to leave it with that thought of what the future would look like with WooCommerce, and whether we still have a Cart page in 10 years time, or we’ll look back and say, “Actually, nothing really much has changed.” So I want to thank my panelist, Bob and Robbie very much for that time, and we’ll see you again at the next episode of Do the Woo.