In this episode, Bob is joined by returning co-host Cami McNamara, who brings her passion for productivity and habits back to the show. Together, they look at the art of balancing good and bad habits, sharing personal stories from their web design careers and beyond.
The conversation covers everything from managing email overload and staying sane as freelancers, to navigating the distractions of social media and even the irresistible temptation of cat videos. With a renewed focus on broadening the podcast’s scope to include open web and open source topics, Bob and Cami set the stage for future episodes filled with practical strategies, candid chats, and guest appearances from those mastering their own unique routines.
Whether you’re a solo creator, business owner, or juggling a side hustle, this episode is all about finding small, sustainable habits to make your days more productive and rewarding.
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Takeaways
Building Community & Sharing Experiences: Both hosts aim to foster a sense of community by regularly discussing these topics and possibly bringing in outside voices to highlight different approaches and solutions.
Podcast Transformation: Bob shared that the podcast is evolving to cover broader topics about the open web and open source, moving beyond just WordPress-specific conversations.
Co-host’s Return & Theme of Habits: Cami McNamara is returning as co-host, and her focus is on the importance of habits that are both personal and business in maintaining productivity and sanity, especially for freelancers and solo entrepreneurs.
Tiny Habits Matter: Cami McNamara discussed her journey as a freelancer and how implementing small, manageable habits each day helps avoid overwhelm. She mentions her experience blogging, creating a newsletter, and podcasting about these tiny habits for the freelance community.
Personal vs. Business Habits: There’s an overlap between personal and business habits. Small daily actions like tackling work bit by bit and not procrastinating helps ensure success and longevity in business.
Habits Are Not One-Size-Fits-All: The hosts emphasized that there isn’t a “perfect” habit routine that works for everyone. Each person’s workflow and habit preferences are unique and need to be tailored to their own needs.
Email & Slack Management: A key habit mentioned: limiting email (and Slack) checking to set times throughout the day to avoid constant distractions.
Social Media as a Double-Edged Sword: Both hosts expressed concerns about social media. It can become a negative habit, draining time and energy, leading to unnecessary distractions. Cami McNamara
even deleted her X/Twitter account for mental health reasons and shared how she felt relief afterward.
Influencers vs. Small Business Owners: The demands on influencers to post frequently aren’t realistic or necessary for most solo business owners and freelancers. Focusing on actual work rather than chasing followers or engagement can bring more value.
Distraction & Information Overload: Social media, news cycles, and platforms like TikTok can create unhealthy distractions that sometimes combines work and personal habits in ways that are hard to manage.
Future Podcast Vision: The hosts plan to share their successful habits and strategies, as well as their struggles with bad habits. They’re also considering inviting guests who have mastered balancing work (especially those who contribute to open source while holding full-time jobs) to share their insights.
Universal Relevance of Habits: Good habits are important for anyone working in tech, content creation, or design, especially for those in front of computers for long stretches. Issues like not taking breaks, sitting too long, and getting sucked into distractions are common, and discussing strategies to overcome them can help listeners across different professions.
Timestamped Overview
- 00:00 Skipping Seattle Event Reflections
- 04:40 Tiny Habits for Everyday Productivity
- 07:06 Perfect Days Are Personal
- 12:45 Managing Social Media Priorities
- 17:37 Work Habits for Desk Jobs
- 18:50 Cutting Back on Distractions
Episode Transcript
Bob Dunn:
Hey, Bob here, and we are back. As, as far as we— I don’t know if you remember Cami McNamara was doing some hosting with Marcus Burnett. Oh, I don’t know, um, last year sometime. Yeah, it’s a year. Oh God, I know. Anyway, I approached her and talked about, you know, let’s bring you back in and I know she really has some specific areas she loves to talk about. But before I get into that, hi, Cami.
Cami McNamara:
Hey, Bob, it’s so good to see you. And it’s a very special day in Seattle, you know, because they’re having the Super Bowl parade today.
Bob Dunn:
Oh, good. And now, are you going to miss it? Are you going to be able to get to it?
Cami McNamara:
Oh, yeah, I’m not going to go. I went 10 years ago and it was, you know, they expect a million people to go to downtown Seattle. And last time I took the water taxi over from West Seattle and went, and I think that’s the only time I really need to do it. It was a lot of people. So I’ll watch on TV today, but it’s exciting. And I was thinking about the last time or one of the last times we were on a podcast together, we were in before your train trip to New York.
Bob Dunn:
That’s right.
Cami McNamara:
And in the background of where we were recording was where the Seahawks play.
Bob Dunn:
So, oh yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, that seems like just yesterday, but then it seems like forever.
Cami McNamara:
I know it does. Well, Seattle misses you. And, but I’m just happy that we’re going to be able to get together once a month and see each other.
Bob Dunn:
So yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s a— it’s going to be a good time because as many people know, we are transforming the podcast more into a wider open web, open source, not specifically always WordPress specific. And this was a perfect one because she likes to talk about habits.
Cami McNamara:
I do.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, then you’re probably going to hear all my bad habits in the next few episodes. That’s the thing I was thinking of. Yeah, I was thinking about that. You know, you got good habits and bad habits, but really, how bad can a habit be unless it’s like, you know, going around throwing rocks in people’s windows or something? And that’s not really a habit, that would just be Bad thing.
Cami McNamara:
Bad thing. Yes. Hopefully one that you get over at like age 8 when you get busted breaking the neighbor’s window.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, exactly. So just to let people know a little bit more, how did you focus on the habits?
Cami McNamara:
Well, so I— this is my 24th year in business, Bob. I can hardly believe it. And, um, so I, over the years, you just kind of learn what works. And when I first started my business, I was a kitchen table kid in school, only working part-time. And as my business grew, I just figured that I needed to tighten my processes because, you know, it’s very easy to be like squirrel, squirrel, and get distracted throughout your day. And I also have taken a lot of like big trainings on how to run my business better. And it always seems so daunting to just like try to apply a whole new system. And I started blogging back in 2018 about habits that were good for a small freelancer web designer like myself. And I started a community on Facebook. And as that grew, I just started to figure, well, maybe I could share all the little habits that I do with everyone. That turned into a 52-week newsletter and a podcast. And, you know, and then at a certain point, it kind of got a little overwhelming because I’m still a web designer with a full-time job. So, That’s kind of just where it came from, is like I could help people by sharing these tiny habits that they can implement that won’t overwhelm them to try to introduce into their day. And, you know, I had habits when I was podcasting by myself too. So anybody who is freelancing or doing graphic design or, or, you know, if you have to self-motivate, get behind your computer every day, do whatever tasks you have in front of you, it helps you to have some tiny habits that you try to implement every day to get through your workday. For me, it’s just a day at a time getting through my workday that helps me, you know, stay sane.
Bob Dunn:
How do personal habits blend in with your business habits? Is it almost when you create one habit, does it ever leak over in some odd way?
Cami McNamara:
Yeah, well, you know, I think it goes all the way back to when we’re kids, Bob. You know how you just, you could put off your homework until the night before, or you could be somebody who chipped away at it a little bit every day. And I think it’s that mind shift, and that’s kind of a personal mind shift that you either get overwhelmed and you wait until the last minute, or if you just set aside a little bit of time every day. And of course, you know, I wasn’t the perfect student. I didn’t have that all figured out, especially in high school, right? But I think as you grow and you become an adult, and then especially when you start your own business, there is just no way you’re going to have longevity and be successful unless you are chipping away at it every day.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, yeah. So do you think that especially with business habits, it’s, it’s not hard and set?
Cami McNamara:
Yeah, 100%. Somebody else’s perfect day is probably not your perfect day. And I have days that I’m great and I have days that I still am just like a total mess. Right? But the— but you wake up the next day and you can try again to implement those habits. And, you know, one of the big ones is like not checking email all day. And I hear, um, I, you know, heard from— if I send that newsletter out, I get a lot of responses, you know, like people just want to send that response and deal. But if you are looking at your email all day, then that’s your job. And as whether you’re, you know, running a podcast or building websites, you’re, you’re not an email machine. That’s not your job. So if you have to limit that. So that’s one that I focus on every day that I’m really trying to always be on top of. And that’s like I check email 3 times a day for a half an hour at a time. And that’s all I do.
Bob Dunn:
So yeah, yeah, fortunately I don’t get.
Cami McNamara:
Tons of emails, so it would be Slack, right? It would be like Slack is your time suck.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah.
Cami McNamara:
So you just have to pay attention to those.
Bob Dunn:
Well, and when you take something like social media and— yeah, yeah, I see you’re already like, ah, um, it’s something that you think, okay, I have to create this pattern or strategy, you know, however you choose to do that, to use social media for your business, but Often that can turn into a really bad habit, I think.
Cami McNamara:
Really bad.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, and I’ve been cutting back a lot more on X, several of those, you know, and there’s other reasons involved too, just because of all the basically garbage on it.
Cami McNamara:
But yeah, I nuked my 9,000 follower X account. I kept my handle. I’m over on Bluesky and it’s been great. An improvement in my personal life.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah.
Cami McNamara:
Um, because the strategy I had there to reach out to other web designers, well, it was great to keep in contact with friends, but, and most of them have landed in other places. Uh, but the other stuff that was happening there was distressing to me. And so it’s just been a big win to kind of cut back on social media. I, I. Overall, you know, I can, I can post something once a week now and, and feel good about that.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah.
Cami McNamara:
Where I’ve had folks that have social media as their job title and they’re encouraging you to post 4 times a day or something like that. Oh God, what a nightmare that sounds like, right?
Bob Dunn:
I saw some recent tip about X and the The guy was saying something like, you should make a point to comment on accounts that have over 100,000 followers, and that will help you rise up or be more visible. And he— I can’t remember how many times he told you to do that, but I thought, man, you know, that’s constantly watching finding the right one that you can add so-called engagement to. And that kind of time is just— I, I don’t understand how many people can spend the time they do on it.
Cami McNamara:
So, right. Well, I guess if your job is influencer, right, and, and you have a team of people running your social media, it makes sense. Um, but you know, for someone like myself who is a web designer, I, the most bang for my buck is working on work. And you know, while it’s nice to connect with people and if I had a product that I was promoting or something, maybe it would be different. Um, but I, you know, it does, you learn things, you learn how to dial it back. You know, and you find your audience, right? So it was a little difficult to say, okay, I’m gonna get rid of this, all these followers and everything else. But Morten Hendrickson did a great article on how to nuke your Twitter account but keep your handle. And so I followed his lead and it worked out great. And I immediately felt relief, you know, just like, oh, I don’t have to worry about this. One account anymore.
Bob Dunn:
So yeah, yeah, yeah, totally get that.
Cami McNamara:
But that’s a perfect example of something that’s both work and personal, you know, because if we’re, we’re all feeding ourselves all this 24-hour news cycle, that’s not healthy.
Bob Dunn:
No, no, it really isn’t. And that’s how I find myself getting too distracted because I’m looking for work-related topics or content. And no matter how much I can.
Cami McNamara:
Filter your lists and all that, yeah.
Bob Dunn:
You think, okay, I’ve got this kind of bubble, which I don’t like being in the first place. But you have this bubble of people that you think, okay, this is safe. But then they go off on little tangents or they go off on something that, you know, suddenly you’re filled with a bunch of things that people had for lunch and you’re trying to find that and you’re thinking, or you learn.
Cami McNamara:
Something about someone that you’d probably not like to know.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Too much information. Yeah.
Cami McNamara:
Yeah, exactly.
Bob Dunn:
You know, we may just have conversations, you and I, we may find somebody to bring in some time around a topic. What is your vision of what we’ll be doing together?
Cami McNamara:
Well, first of all, we’re going to get to see each other once a month, which I’m super excited. And for those listening that don’t know, Bob and I go way back, right? To Seattle WordPress meetups. I think it would be helpful for both of us to think about the habits maybe the habits that we succeed with, that we could share how, how we succeed with those habits and also the bad ones that we’re having a hard time letting go of, right? And, and, and try to come up with strategies for that. And then I’m sure we both know people that are really good at certain things that other people might be interested in learning how they do it, um, because Behind every person who’s running a business or a podcast or something, they’re going to have a set way they do it that’s going to be different than everyone else’s. And if they’d be willing to share what that is, then it could be helpful to people listening.
Bob Dunn:
Right, right. I had thought of one. I was just before the show thinking through a little bit of this, and I was thinking It’d be really interesting to have somebody that works full-time and also contributes to open source and learn how they have built habits around that, because sometimes that seems overwhelming. And other people are probably thinking, you know, how can I at least carve in this little bit of time?
Cami McNamara:
That would be fantastic because that is somebody who, you know, oftentimes we have a hard time as business owners, or I mean, especially if you have a job and you’re doing a side hustle or you’re helping with, you know, the projects, that person has to have things together enough to be able to carve out that time. And I would love to hear more.
Bob Dunn:
About Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there’s a lot of different angles. So many things overlap with everyone, especially the single person that’s trying to run a business.
Cami McNamara:
But it would also apply to, let’s say you work for a plug-in company. You know, you’re going to— everybody that sits in front of their computer to do any job whatsoever has to have some good habits behind that to be able to be successful. And I think we all have common distractions. Like there’s just common distractions, right? So if you’re in an office and, you know, you don’t take breaks, that’s a habit that a lot of times people that have a computer job will— a bad habit will be, I’m in flow. And so I’m going to sit here for 5 hours because I’m in a groove or whatever. And if you do that too often, you’re at the chiropractor. On a regular basis, right? That kind of thing. So I do think there’s a way for us to approach it that it can be helpful for people across our world of WordPress or, you know, any, any other type of design type job too, right? Or content creation, all of it.
Bob Dunn:
Oh yeah. And I think that distraction thing is big. And that’s one of the reasons maybe yourself and I even think about cutting back on social media. I mean, cat videos. I can’t stay away from cat videos. And somehow they figure out you like cat videos, so they put in a lot more of them. And I’m just like, oh, and then I got a bookmark to show it to Judy because it was so damn good. You know, yeah. And I’m thinking, whoa, what was I doing? How did I get to cats?
Cami McNamara:
So, right, right. Same with TikTok. TikTok is something that like, you know, I have to really say I’m not going to look at TikTok before I go to sleep because like an hour and a half later I’m still doing this on TikTok, right?
Bob Dunn:
Oh yeah. This, I think there’s going to be plenty to talk about and sometimes having the fun and enjoyment of us two talking about what we’ve heard, maybe what other people have heard, and every once in a while slide somebody in.
Cami McNamara:
It’s just going to be really great to get to chat with you once a month, Bob.
Bob Dunn:
Cool. Well, everybody, you can expect we’ll be talking about various things over the next few months and Again, I’m looking forward to it. Thanks, everybody, for listening. And thanks, Cami, for kind of coming back into the team here at Open Channels FM.
Cami McNamara:
I’m thrilled. I’m thrilled to be back. And I am looking forward to this way for me to get to hang out with you, basically.
Bob Dunn:
Same here. All righty. Thanks again, Cami.
Cami McNamara:
Thanks, Bob.
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