AI, DevOps, and Accessibility in OSS

Robbie:
Hello and welcome to another episode of Do the Woo. This is Agency Chat. I’m flying solo today. Robert is off having a great time at Domain Days in Dubai, and so I am on my own today, but I have a great guest for us to talk to today, and so he gets more radio time because Robert won’t be here hogging the mic. I can’t wait for Robert to hear that. So Anick, welcome to the show. How are you today?

Anick:
Okay, thank you so much for having me today, Robbie.

Robbie:
Yeah, absolutely. And so Anick, let’s talk a little bit about your agency, and Bob alluded to the fact that you’re coming back into the WordPress world here. So tell me about your company and tell me about your journey and how you’re back in the WordPress world.

Anick:
Cool. So I mean, I’ve been running Pixable, that’s the name of my agency, for about nearly 10 years now. And I’ve been in around the WordPress ecosystem since the inception of our agency. And of course, we’re a web and software agency, so we’re doing a lot of websites, a lot of CMS work. So WordPress has always been a stalwart in our technology stack. However, we’ve always done things like laying in the wings, building workflow CMS websites, pointing people to different solutions in the WordPress ecosystem without really having any sort of formal association with WordPress and Woo especially.

So I think to kind echo what would’ve mentioned is that I think about two years ago decided to formalize our association with Woo and Automatic and WordPress to showcase the really great work that we’ve been doing for a lot of clients. We’ve got about 80 to 90 clients now distributed between the UK and us, and we do some really good stuff, and I think it really serves our proposition well to have a formal association with automatic. So that’s the kind of journey that we’ve had. We’ve been laying in the wings over the last couple of years. We really want to expand our offering into WordPress. It’s such a core part of what we do and it always will be as our business evolves. So yeah, here we are today. I’m keen to get even more invested going forward.

Robbie:
Awesome. Yes. Well then great. This is a great way to get you started, get people in the community to hear your story. I think that’s always a great way. I mean, it’s really the benefit I feel like of being in that community is it’s just the relationships that you develop and you just never know where that’ll take you. I mean, with your agency, it’ll be referral work or vice versa, but it’s more than just that. It’s just the advice that you might hear from someone that makes you spurs an idea that you just like, oh, well, we didn’t think about doing it that way. You know what I mean? So I welcome you into the community. I think communities are very important even no matter what your tech stack is. I think being involved in the communities that touch the things that you use is a great idea.

Anick:
Absolutely. Yeah,

Robbie:
Those 80 to 90 clients in the UK and the us, that’s a big portfolio that you’ve got going there. Now. What would you say your percentage of e-commerce is amongst those clients?

Anick:
I think it’s a good question because ironically, we don’t really segment our customers using that as a metric. We actually look at payments infrastructure as a metric. So there could be a company who doesn’t necessarily retail online through WooCommerce, for example. However, they’ll have a payments infrastructure where WooCommerce still can play a really important part. So I think in terms of your typical e-commerce online store clients out of the 90 will probably have about between 30 and 40 of them. So let’s say half. But every single one of those clients has some sort of payment infrastructure that we touch. So it’s a fair amount of clients.

Robbie:
So you’re using, woo, it sounds like maybe in some more unique ways, not just your traditional building a web store for someone. You’re using woo’s payment methodology in other ways with your clients.

Anick:
Yeah, I think the earliest sort of projects that we would’ve built would be more of your typical turnkey solutions for e-commerce. So we’d use Woo out of the box. We’d use the supported payment gateways to foster a simple, clean and elegant checkout process for clients. We’d encourage customers to use the backend of WooCommerce for their core web analytics and metrics.

But as our proposition sort of evolved, as our client base started to shift slightly away from startups and SMEs and more towards mid-market, naturally their requirements and demands for e-commerce evolved. So now we’re finding that ourselves doing, like you mentioned, way more complicated things with WooCommerce, especially on the backend of WooCommerce.

So for example, we’re talking about inventory system integrations into accounting software, automated invoicing, client portal tools for downloading of resources. Sometimes we’ve got a couple of clients where we have multifaceted WooCommerce experiences where they’ll have a wholesale platform experience versus a retail customer experience. And the results of our work is allowing us to build more and more innovative and creative solutions.

And as we go forward, we are looking at more of an enterprise approach where we are moving our entire methodology for a specific type of client that has these sorts of requirements into more of a composable, headless sort of stack, where sometimes we’ll even use WooCommerce in a composable way where WooCommerce will be the logic layer for a completely decomposed next JS front end experience, for example. So yeah, really interesting things that we’ve got going on here.

Robbie:
Awesome. That’s really cool. So as you’re doing these customizations and modifications with Woo, what is your company’s approach to that? In other words, are you building, oh, we’re going to build a custom plugin so that we can reutilize this methodology that we’re doing with Woo? Or do you do more just we’re just going to customize this one project, we’re never going to repeat it. What are you finding that you tend to do more often?

Anick:
More often is the latter, to be honest, because the relationship that we have with clients is that we are work-for-hire, so we want the customer to have ownership of the code base and the resultant IP, even though the origins of that come from open source. And I think there’s always been this temptation for us to create reusable plugins and extensions that we definitely see a use case for, but I don’t know if that’s something that is going to be in the direction of our agency, to be honest. I don’t know. I think managing and supporting plugins for mass market use has its own demands and expectations, and I think of this, and I’m not sure if we have the appetite for that just yet. So for now, everything is done for our clients installed on their websites, and it’s theirs.

Robbie:
Yeah, interesting. Yeah, so I have an agency as well, and we tend to also lean towards that and not, because again, we don’t want to be a plugin company. That’s just not our cup of tea. And there are a few things that we will do internally, and we just maintain those for ourselves. They’re just for us, and it’s to speed up our process, but not something that we intend to open up and try to support out there as a plugin.

I think you’re right. That is a whole different mindset, and a lot of times I feel the agencies, it’s harder to then split your time between those two things. It’s almost better to start a new company that does that portion, you know what I’m saying? Just so you don’t muddy your agency waters, I feel like sometimes. But I mean, there are some agencies that have done it very successfully. So who am I to say?

Anick:
Yeah, yeah, I mean, of course, it definitely does work. I’ve got buddies who run agencies and they also have this software arm to their business, and it works really well. But for us, I mean, yeah, I don’t think it’s just the right cup of tea for us, to be honest.

Robbie:
I got you. So now, interesting, you said you’re a work-for-hire. Where are you based?

Anick:
We’re in London, in the UK.

Robbie:
London, okay. Okay, interesting. So I’m in Texas, and we are also a work-for-hire state. So if a company, one of our clients has us build some custom code, same thing, that belongs to them and becomes part of their IP, which they see as very valuable.

A lot of times in the States, we get clients from other states just because the agencies in their state do not have that same work-for-hire rule and law. And so then that means they still maintain the copyright to all of that code that they did.

Anick:
Interesting.

Robbie:
And so it’s interesting though that London is a work-for-hire as well. Good to know. Good to know. For other agencies out there, when we work with other agencies, same thing. I also kind of look for that. You want an agency, if you’re working partnership with another agency, you can [find an] agency that does work similar to you, I find, just because then it’s not as jarring to the client if you’ve brought in some outside resources to help with a project. So that’s very interesting to hear. So when you said you have other technology in your stack that you’re mixing in with Woo and with WordPress, so what would you say are some of your best technologies that you’re known for your agency that you guys do very well?

Anick:
I think, yeah, that’s a good question. To answer that question, if we take a step back and look at our methodology when it comes to WordPress and WooCommerce, we’ve always taken an enterprise approach to CMS. So right from the start of when we were building WooCommerce and WordPress websites, we resisted the temptation of finding a third-party theme or a plugin that can do what we needed to do. And that’s because of my pre-agency life. I worked with Umbraco CMS and I dabbled in a little bit of Sitecore, and I kind of looked at how enterprise companies manage their web infrastructure using an enterprise CMS, and we tried to take those learnings and apply them to the WordPress tech stack that we have.

We built this approach based on this enterprise outlook, and therefore we also tried to layer on top other enterprise-level technologies. One thing that we’ve really done successfully over the last four or five years is really blending React experiences on top of a WordPress. So, for example, let’s say you want to create a travel guide for a client and you want to show real-time weather at a destination. Now there’s a couple of different ways of doing that. You could just go online, look for a plugin, purchase a plugin, install it, or you could code that yourself using JS on the front end and stuff. But of course, using vanilla JS is relatively unstructured. The code may be sort of married to the developer that coded that work.

So what we’ve done instead is we would create a custom experience and a custom component for that, but we would create that in React, and then we’d install it onto that website as a plugin. So then we’d have version control on that plugin. It would be from a well-documented library. The code base isn’t married to that developer. So there’s always going to be a situation where if that work needed to be handed over, it’s done in a structured way, and also the performance is great. So, yeah, we’ve managed to find a really good workflow to enable us to inject React JS experiences mixed in with WordPress in a really intelligent way.

Robbie:
Cool. So when you’re looking at this from an enterprise perspective, when you look at WordPress and WooCommerce, what do you find is one of the jarring things that you’re like, this is not enterprise, we’ve got to fix the way such and such works. So what are the things that you are seeing that you feel your company has to change or modify by adding a React codebase or whatever it is you’re having to do to fix it?

Anick:
Woo. Okay. So I think if we look at it in the guise of just out of the box, I think, in essence, the proposition of WordPress and WooCommerce doesn’t, it carries an inherent risk for businesses because WordPress is a CMS, it’s a front end and it’s a database all packaged into one. So it presents itself inadvertently as a potential single point of failure if something was to go wrong.

And I think when we are approaching mid-market customers, many times there would be certain stakeholders within that business who are familiar with WordPress, and they don’t have any issue working with WordPress, but we cannot be in a position to present WordPress CMS or this technology piece where it is a fundamental part of their workflow and the fundamental part of their technology stack because it does present an element of risk. However, because they are comfortable using it, it doesn’t mean that they want to shy away from WordPress.

Anick:
They’re happy to work with WordPress as a CMS, as a logic layer for certain things. But that’s why to accommodate for enterprise—and not necessarily enterprise, we don’t really have the, I mean, we’re a team of nine, so I don’t think we are well suited for enterprise customers—but mid-market for sure, and that’s where we want to really get a foothold in.

I think clients in the mid-market space, they like using WordPress, but as long as it’s fitted into a wider workflow that is de-risked and it’s scalable and it doesn’t have huge computing demands, I think it’s great. And that’s the thing that we’ve had to almost bed in really well.

We’ve had to explain to them, look, we’ll build you a WordPress CMS website that would connect to your Next.js front end that can be hosted on Vercel or Netlify or somewhere else, a platform which you guys are already using, or something that’s really geared towards the serving of static files over the internet. But then you’ll have this really great and intuitive and comfortable CMS experience hosted with Automattic where you can upload content, and they eat it up—they love it.

So I think it works well, but I think that’s the biggest challenge that we’ve had to overcome when we are explaining that single point of failure PHP applications natively bring to the table.

Robbie:
Well, and I think over the last few years after the pandemic, with the increase in hacking that we have seen, and some of the things that we have seen, I think it has pointed out—obviously to enterprise, but even your mid-market, mid-level market companies—that single points of failure exist out there all over the place, unfortunately. Even if it’s just a little single little simple PHP app that runs on their server level that goes out and, oh my gosh.

And so I think though that you are definitely going about it the right way by offering those, the mid-level companies—they want enterprise solutions because, obviously, if I’m a mid-level company, my ultimate goal is to be enterprise. And so if you’re already set up for that, I feel like it’s probably by you coming in and treating them like they are an enterprise level, they probably really appreciate that there is a little bit of security feel to that, “Hey, I’m not just slapping up a WordPress site. I’m actually looking at it from all angles.” I think that’s a fantastic offering that you’re going at it with.

Robbie:
So what are you seeing right now? And I know right now the world economy is—and partly it’s because of the U.S., we just had a big election, it changes things in the world economy. Are you seeing any things in your trends that are changing currently from your client demands? Are they coming at you asking for some things that you’re like, oh wow, I tend to have that with a lot of my clients. One starts asking for something and then all of a sudden I have several other clients that are calling me asking me about the same things. And so I’m like, what is going on out there? What are they reading? So I’m just curious if you’re seeing any trends right now with the client needs and demands.

Anick:
I think over the last couple of years, one could really argue that there’s been an over-investment in AI. And I think right from the start of the ChatGPT explosion, we’ve had clients really wanting to make the most of it, and we’ve tried really hard to put ourselves in a position to satisfy those demands.

I think the landscape is still quite changing. I think everybody sees the value in it. I think people are still trying to figure out the best way of optimizing it. But one thing that I really noticed is that when it comes to that AI piece, people are writing blank checks to monetize it as best as possible.

And as a result, ironically, I think the biggest impact that I’m seeing is that people’s compute bills to execute some of these AI models, some of these automated chatbots—people’s AWS bills, their Google Cloud bills, their Azure bills are just going up and up and up.

And as a result of that, I can see some clients trying to sacrifice other areas of their technology infrastructure to feed that investment. So for example, whereas they may have paid for a complex or enterprise-level license on Cloudflare CDN, for example, they’ll turn that back saying, “Oh, do you know what? We don’t need that anymore. We’d rather just continue putting money into the budget to train our AI data analytics model or something.”

And that’s been really interesting to see. So I feel like the biggest trend that I’m seeing is actually more from the DevOps side. I think people are sold on the UI side. They know that this chat interface with a large language model is captivating, and that’s the thing that’s really caught the attention and imagination of everyone.

So I think that’s already in the bag, and I feel like the resultant effect on the DevOps is the biggest trend that I’m seeing. But that’s exactly when something like a managed hosting provider for a website really shines, because we’ve got now, I think, just shy of 35 clients moved over from AWS to Pressable.

And the reason why we’ve done that is because a managed solution in this climate, where everybody’s AWS bills are just going out of control because they’re spinning up EC2 servers to train AI models, they find that a managed hosting solution for their website is a much more palatable expense. It’s regulated, it’s consistent, it’s all taken care of. Uptime is great. They can now redeploy DevOps resources from one to another because it doesn’t need it anymore.

So I feel like this DevOps change is actually really interesting, away from the code base itself.

Robbie:
Interesting. I actually had a conversation with a client last week about their AWS bill, and they were concerned—it seemed to be getting more and more—and I was like, yeah, but I mean, so we have applications for them running on AWS, and I’m like, you just had to spin up another staging. You want to test something different. And I was like, so yeah, as you get more and more on there, that’s what happens to your bill.

But I will say, I mean, they’re at the point where it’s still a more affordable solution to be on AWS than it is to be on managed at this moment in time. But like you said, that can change very quickly these days with the computing powers that we are utilizing. And they’re not—I mean, they’re using some little layers of AI but nothing intensive. So I was like, well, if we start adding more to this area of the app, it’s going to start getting more expensive to host there.

So interesting. It is just interesting that you said that when I had a client talk about that last week, and I just really had not been paying that much attention to it until he said something to me. And I was like, let me go look at these bills. And even my own—I mean, I just have little bits that we’re running on there—mainly we stream video mainly from AWS, but I was like, yeah, hey, it is costing a little bit more now.

Anick:
That’s it. They just spin up a staging server just to test this AI image generation model, and somebody’s got to pay for it.

Robbie:
Yeah, and Amazon is not, they’re going to pay for it for…

Anick:
Exactly. Exactly.

Robbie:
Yeah, exactly. Unless Amazon’s like, “Yeah, you could send me more money. Thank you.” Yeah. Cool.

So let’s talk about laws and how laws are affecting e-commerce, particularly in the UK. What are you battling over there now? Always there’s something somewhere everywhere, right? It’s like, how are we going to get past this?

Anick:
Yeah, let me think. Recent law changes—I mean, I think companies are still grappling with compliance around data a lot. So we obviously have, in the UK, even though we are not part of the EU anymore, we’re still bound by the EU’s GDPR legislation.

I think there is a transitionary period, which I think—I don’t want to say anything incorrect—but there is an intention at this point for us to move away from GDPR one day to our own British sort of data protection policies. But I don’t know if anything’s in motion for that just yet.

But I still see businesses that are really not well prepared to deal with data compliance responsibilities. One of the great things that WooCommerce offers out of the box, actually, is the ability to sort of anonymize customer data, the ability for customers to delete accounts, and that kind of stuff.

So there are some really great tools that are at their disposal, but I think people are consistently struggling with data management and compliance on the front end, but then also policies on the backend about how long they can store data.

What does it look like when somebody makes a GDPR data request through their website? What sort of policies do you have for the transmission and the storage of data? So I think it’s a huge area where businesses still have to do so much to catch up on. So I think that would be the biggest thing that affects e-commerce especially at this point.

Robbie:
And what about accessibility? Are you having demands for more accessibility from your clients, or are you just telling the clients they need to have better accessibility on their sites?

Anick:
I find that there’s a level of self-regulation that happens on that. I think a lot of clients are led by their competition, and if the competition is doing something right by way of accessibility, clients are keen to adopt that. Whereas the same doesn’t happen with data protection because nobody knows what everybody else is doing, because all of that stuff is behind closed doors.

But when it comes to accessibility, I think there’s an overlap between accessibility and user experience.

Robbie:
Correct? Yes, absolutely.

Anick:
And I feel like good UX trickles down to great accessibility, and everybody’s learning from everybody else. So I feel like I see that a lot, actually.

And it could be something as primitive as a client saying, “Oh, that’s going to be difficult for somebody to press,” all the way up to, “Is this going to be visible for everybody who might have some visual impairment?”

So I think that I see actually self-regulation happening quite a lot in accessibility, to be honest, which is quite surprising.

Robbie:
I love your quote there: “Good UX trickles down to great accessibility.” I love that quote. I love it.

Anick:
Yeah, it’s from experience, I think. Yeah.

Robbie:
Yeah, yeah. No, it’s absolutely true. I was actually just listening to a podcast last week, and they were saying that 90%—90 or 95%, it’s very high—I want to say I’ll just go with 90, I’ll go by my lower number in my head, but 90% of websites on the web are not accessible or are not compliant accessible websites, I should say.

They might have some things on it, but they’re by no means even would be considered as they’ve done much on it. It’s probably they just happened upon a theme that had some things in it that were accessible or whatever. It wasn’t that they’ve done any accessibility work on it. And they’re thinking the worldwide web, 90% are not considered accessible in some manner. And I’m like, that’s a huge number.

And so I do think that particularly in any of the countries where lawsuits are a big thing—I won’t mention, oh yeah, that’s us here anyway—I think a lot of lawyers and law firms probably look at this as, “Wow, hey, there’s some good money to be made right here,” because just the numbers, the sheer numbers of the amount of websites that are not accessible.

And I think if you have clients that are those mid-level market clients to growing on up to bigger enterprise-level clients, that those are the clients that at this point need to start really looking at things, dotting their I’s and crossing their T’s, just because they would be more targeted for lawsuits because they have the funds behind them.

I mean, your little mom-and-pop shop, that’s not accessible. No one’s going after them because they’re like, yeah, I mean they have no money. They have nothing for them to go after. It’ll be the larger clients that I feel are going to start getting pings and emails or letters—cease and desist letters or a notice of suit letter and things like that.

Anick:
Fine. Yeah. Yeah, it’s interesting because I think we complain about it a lot, but I think we’ve got a lot to thank, I guess, Google for regulating and progressing this forward a lot because obviously one of the things that we have in our workflow before we launch a website is to make sure that all the core vitals are looking good. And accessibility now is a big part of that.

And I feel like one of the main reasons why such a large percentage of websites would not pass those accessibility scores is because some could argue that Google is moving the goalposts slightly and it’s introducing new things, new metrics, but it’s good because it progresses things.

So for example, you launch a website and then some of the websites that will be launched will predate Google’s core web vital metric for having ARIA labels on websites and the contrast ratio scores will change and all this kind of stuff.

But I think it’s important for everyone to be on top of all that. But look, we’ve got tools at disposal to make sure that we’re satisfying all these requirements. So, I mean, it’s built into our browsers many times. So I think, yeah, the tools are there, and I think more accessibility for a wider number of users means more customers, more visitors, more conversions.

So I think it’s in everyone’s interest to do so. It shouldn’t take a lawsuit to get everyone to…

Robbie:
Well, and in the U.S. anyway, what we usually tell clients is, as long as you continue working on it, you’re not going to be able to go tomorrow and just hire a company and make your website perfect accessibility forever. This is not the way this works. It’s a changing target, as you said, but as long as they continue working on it, that’s showing good faith that they’re trying.

And so I do encourage our clients to try, whether it be with us or they want to hire a specific accessibility company, I do encourage them to keep working at it. Just chipping away at that. Because like you said, it’s not just a compliance issue either. It’s opening up your e-commerce and your website to more people. More people can equal more customers. So if it’s about the bottom line, it’s still a good investment.

Anick:
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

Robbie:
Yeah, absolutely. So you’re an English-speaking country just like us, but do you do much in the multilingual world with Woo in particular?

Anick:
We don’t, actually. Okay, I’ll tell you why. I think we did a couple of websites three or four years ago for a company in the Middle East, and they speak Arabic. And along with the language barrier and things like this, Arabic goes right to left as opposed to us.

So we had a couple of challenging websites that eventually we thought, you know what, it’s just not for us. And the thing is, we like to focus on English-speaking countries and English-speaking clients just because we feel like that cultural fit is super important. Being able to understand requirements is super important.

And I think it’s not just language; I think it’s also culture. There’s a reason why we don’t have clients in other non-English speaking countries—France, Germany. English, the language, is widely adopted, and it’s used primarily in business.

The reason why we don’t try to win clients there is because we have a better cultural fit with clients in the U.S. and native clients in the UK as well. That really fosters a good relationship. I think that’s super important to have a successful long-term association with clients.

Robbie:
Awesome. Yeah, I feel that same way too. I think that there are some agencies out there that are very good at doing multilingual, and I’m like, I will let them do it.

Anick:
Yeah.

Robbie:
Same thing. I actually just had a client last year that needed a multilingual, and I was like, this is not a good fit for us. We can help you with this part, and we could give some recommendations on agencies that we know about that are really good in this area.

But sometimes you’re doing a disservice to a client if you take something that you’re not comfortable with.

Anick:
So we draw the line on a few things. For example, we’re a technology agency, so we want to really focus on stack.

So let’s say, for example, somebody wants a photographer or a content creator. We say that’s not our wheelhouse. So we are blessed with a really good network of individuals and agencies, both in the UK and the U.S., that we are happy to collaborate with.

So we say, look, if you need some creative direction, if you need brand guidelines created or logo design or something, then yeah, we can point you to a million people. But what we kind of really look after is that technology estate.

So if there’s a line of code being written, we’ll look after that. If there’s a server that needs to be maintained, we’ll look after that. Technology consulting is another thing that we do. But I think when it comes to content, multilingual translations, and all this kind of stuff, that’s just not us. We let somebody else do that, like you said.

Robbie:
Yeah. Well, no, like I said, I think that makes for a good and healthy agency when you can say, this is what we’re really good at, and these are the things that we’re not so good at, but we know people. So I think that does make for a very healthy agency.

And I think for the client, that’s the type of agency they need—an honest agency that says, we can do this and this, but we can tell you who to go to for that.

And I think that’s what clients really want. They actually don’t want the agency that says, we can do absolutely everything for you. They just don’t want that anymore.

Anick:
Yeah, 100%. I agree. 100%.

Robbie:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So tell us, you are getting more involved in the community, but what does that mean for you? Are you going to be going to, say, the flagship events for WordPress this year? Are you attending things in person or…

Anick:
Yeah, so I think the ambition that I had to formalize my association with WordPress also came along with my ambitions to formalize my associations with other partners in technology that we work closely with.

So we set up our AWS certification track. We’re now partners with Stripe as well. Zoho is another big one. Zoho CRM is one of the most popular applications that we embed in the technology stack of companies.

So we made a formal partnership in the UK as a Zoho partner, and WordPress again is part of that. So along with making my partnerships with AWS and Zoho, I went to Zoho’s annual event called Zohoholics. I went to the AWS Partner Summit in London.

And then, yeah, I intend to go to WordCamp in Switzerland next June. So I think events, yes, are a big part of that ambition to really become a proper active member in the WordPress community.

Yeah, absolutely. And also being a champion for Woo and Pressable and Jetpack and kind of embedding those brand names into our WordPress sort of dialogue when we’re qualifying and introducing our proposition to customers is really important. Some things will take longer to adopt than others, but we’re working on it. Yeah, we’ll see where it goes.

Robbie:
Awesome. Well, we will have to have a coffee together in Switzerland. I’m looking forward to WordCamp Europe. I’ve already started getting some emails about it, and so I was like, okay, it’s been a month or two past an event. Now we’ve got to start planning the next one—it’s what it always feels like.

Anick:
Great, great, great.

Robbie:
Yeah. Awesome. Well, I’m glad that you’re back into the community and look forward to meeting you in person at WordCamp Europe.

And good luck on your other certifications that you’re working on. I think that having, like I said, having your tech stack, having communications and relationships inside of those communities really makes a big difference and makes a big difference all the way down to your client.

Your client is getting a better service and product out of you because of those relationships that you’re establishing. So I think that’s fantastic.

Anick:
Yeah, absolutely.

Robbie:
So if someone wants to find you and your company online, how best can they find you and your company?

Anick:
Our website is pixable.co. And yeah, all the ways to reach us will be listed on there. So a list of all our products and services and contact information, all that kind of stuff.

And yeah, we’re in London. We’re in the financial district in London. So yeah, anybody’s also at any time welcome to come and visit us. So yeah, everything’s on the website—pixable.co.

Robbie:
Pixable.co. And Bob will also have a link on the website for this podcast. But thank you so much, Anick, for coming on and chatting with me about your agency and things you’re working on. I really appreciate it.

Anick:
Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, and I also appreciate your time and look forward to seeing you at WordCamp.

Robbie:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And we probably—I know you said your clients are more mid-market, but what you’re doing for them is more enterprise-level. And so Bob may also want to have you come on the Enterprise show too.

So there’s another segment that is more focused on enterprise needs. And so it sounds like you might have some good insights, especially from your history before your agency.

Anick:
Amazing. Yeah. Cool. Lovely.

Robbie:
Awesome. All right. Thank you very much. And everyone who’s listening, don’t forget to catch the next episode of Do the Woo!