WordPress and WooCommerce at CloudFest 2024

Jonathan:
Welcome to another episode of Do the Woo. I am your co-host, Jonathan Wold. And with me today is your other co-host, Tammie Lister. How are you, Tammie?

Tammie:
I’m good, thank you. How are you?

Jonathan:
Well, today we are talking about CloudFest and the WP Day, and I’m excited that we have the Do the Woo, a Strong Do the Woo presence this year at CloudFest, there are multiple hosts who are going to be there, and this, if I’m recalling correctly, Tammie will be your first time out to CloudFest, not the first time you’ve been invited though. What was your first impression when you first heard of CloudFest? It’s been a couple of years, right? Yeah.

Tammie:
Yeah. I think my first impression was not really understanding how I would fit there, and I think that’s something in the conversations with you and with working through this has been, and you can kind of address that a little bit more, is seeing how it’s not just for the business conversations or hosting, and that has been really interesting. So I’d love you to talk more on that because just the way that you explained it to me has been really interesting as well.

Jonathan:
So for those who don’t know, let’s give some context. So CloudFest is an event that takes place every year in Europe. It’s in Europa Park, which is a little town in Germany, which you, you’ve been to the park before. You know the venue?

Tammie:
Yes, when I was younger.

Jonathan:
And for those who don’t know, my impression as an American going to the park for the first time is like, this has a curiously, it reminds me of a Disney World.

Tammie:
Let’s go with that.

Jonathan:
Yeah. It’s quite interesting. I actually quite enjoyed my experience. It might be different as a child. I’m sure a lot’s changed as well since you were there.

Tammie:
Yes.

Jonathan:
So this will be my third year attending. The first year I was a backup speaker and I spoke on WordPress as an ecosystem. And then last year we put together a WP Day at the beginning of kick it off, and this year it’s expanding further. My first impression, CloudFest has been going for a long time. The hosting industry is a big industry. There’s a lot of moving parts and pieces to it, and CloudFest has its own storied history For a while it was owned by GoDaddy and then ultimately the group of folks who have been at the heart of it for a long time, Soeren and Christian, and have a great team around them, took CloudFest several years back and have been growing it since. It’s a fantastic event. The team really knows how to put together an event experience. And the thing that I’ve personally loved about it over the past couple of years is just the growing WordPress influence in the programming and the attendees and the thinking and the reason is quite obvious.

WordPress is a massive part of the hosting industry, and from my first time attending to each time since just the interest and the openness on the part of the hosting community and those who serve them to understand WordPress better, it’s been fantastic and it’s been great for me to see the growing number of WordPress community folks who’ve been making it out. So just before CloudFest, we have WordCamp, Asia, and Taipei. For some, it’s an opportunity to combine two trips into one for others it’s like, okay, that’s way too much. So it’s like an either or.

Tammie:
Yeah. And I think it’s like you have to make decisions depending on your families, depending on what you’re doing, depending on whether you can drop your bag back home, get your change of clothing, and because it’s very different environments as well, right? March in Germany versus Taipei. But I think that that’s kind of the good thing. It’ll be different energies and different people.

Jonathan:
And lemme just expand on that idea of difference for a moment. So one of the things that I love about CloudFest, especially if you’ve just been attending WordCamps, is the difference. Now if you go to a cloud fest, and for those who are just doing WordCamps, it may be a bit of a shock to go to an event that’s not volunteer driven. So there’s still volunteers, there’s folks like myself, Carole Olinger and others who are just helping out on the WordPress side of things, but there’s a professional team that runs this. It’s like a large scale event and it shows up in a lot of ways. When I’m describing this to folks who haven’t been to a WordCamp or to an event like this, it’s like there is a big difference with a WordCamp. What you get is very driven by the organizing team and what they bring to the table.

There is a passion and a heart to it, and your experience will vary. Some parts may be really good, other parts may be sort of underdone, and that can be daunting for folks coming to WordCamps for the first time who are used to professional events and with professional events, you have a much higher expectation. You see that in CloudFest. The other part of it though is that the team loves the WordPress space, so there’s also a lot of heart that they bring into it, and that shows up in the openness that they’ve had to inviting folks like myself and others to contribute and shape and influence the WordPress side of things.

So last year, WP Day was on the Monday before CloudFest kicks off proper, and that was great. We had a couple hundred people there. We tried a mix of different things. This year we’re doing the same, but making it even more of just the proper launch to CloudFest. They’ve got some great meetup stuff, more community stuff happening in the morning and then WP Day kicks off in the afternoon. And yeah, I’m pretty excited. Now you and I are both going to get a chance to attend the hackathon this time around, but yeah, that’s something that I’m looking forward to. I’ve heard really good things about it. I know that Carole and the team do some fantastic work, but this will be my first time getting to see it actually in practice. And one of the projects you were connected with.

Tammie:
Yeah, so I heard about it and I’m really, really excited about Birgit’s project, the inclusive language checker for open source contributors, and she’s actually going to be on the panel for a WP day. So there’s a lovely cohesion going through and I’m really, really excited about just, and that’s the kind of thing, having those kind of projects in the hackathon, I’ve always seen some of these projects come from CloudFest and then kind of come through into the project. I think it’s really important to, we have a lot of interesting perspectives inside, but we get really interesting perspectives when we start collaborating with people who are outside as well. And that is what I feel that you get from situations like this. A curious point, my last time I was in Taipei, I was actually at a cross open source conference, so those kind of cross conferences to me are incredibly delightful.

So that is something that I am really hoping to get from this. And just those different voices that you are all trying to do a similar thing at different levels and just the idea that hacking on different things, the inclusive language, I’m really excited because it covers so many things. I mean, I’m going to read the project description because I think it’s worth reading, but the primary goal of the project is to standardize accessible and inclusive documentation guidelines of across different WordPress teams on the make WordPress dot org, the project aims to consolidate existing internal guidelines into a unified handbook and encourage adherence to diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging.

I always love that we have belonging in there as well. Principles in documentation and posts. So the whole idea is we have all this information in different places and it’s about bringing it all together. That’s kind of the too long don’t read of it. We often think of hackathons as one type of thing, but hackathons are really just like contribution days. They should be multiple different types of things. And this is exactly, so a lot of open source projects that aren’t WordPress do have incredibly good inclusion and diversity documentation. So been able to learn how they’ve done it, how they’ve done inclusion, and how they have language checkers. So yeah, I’m really excited to see what comes from this.

Jonathan:
Look forward to that. And I think I’m glad you made the reference to contributor today. Again, there’s some important similarities between what’s worked well at WordCamps and what we’ve been doing over here and also what CloudFest does, and it’s doing it differently. It’s not the same yet. There’s influence between them. Let’s talk about the WooCommerce angle for a moment. So it was interesting for me for the past three years, so as WordPress has been a clear sort of backdrop and influence, WooCommerce comes up a lot and one of the big changes this year, so Automattic is an official sponsor and WooCommerce is going to have representation. We have Rosalyn from the marketplace team who’s going to be on one of the panels, which I’m excited about. So yeah, that’s one of the things that stood out to me in my conversations with hosts attending has just been the strong interest in Woo.

And so I was really happy to see, so obviously we have great community representation, do the Woo will be there and Woo, as a sponsoring organization through Automattic will also be there. And I think that’s great. That’s a great connection of interest because for a lot of the hosts, they’re looking at the proprietary platforms and seeing what they’re doing. And WooCommerce today is one of the strongest allies and there’s been some confusion in the past where, okay, is WooCommerce focusing on hosting and what’s the deal? And I was happy to see Matt right before he went on sabbatical, make that move to try and clarify that firewall of interest, if you will, where it’s like, there’s the hosting team who’s going to do this, but WooCommerce is free to do whatever. And I think that’s a great backdrop for Woo coming into CloudFest to say, Hey, we’re here to work with the hosts. We’re here to connect these ecosystems better. And so that’s something, another reason why I think for folks who are in the Woo space thinking about CloudFest, there’s a high openness and a desire on the part of hosts to bolster their WooCommerce offerings. And I think working with product folks is one of the best ways to do so.

Tammie:
And I think people need it. If you look at the example I always do is Etsy people just because it’s a real ground level example that people used to be able to start their small shop, knitting, crafting, whatever, put it on Etsy, and they can’t generally do it now because of the high fees. There’s very few opportunities because of high fees and scaling to do that. So you are more and more looking for how can you do it yourself and the scale of being able to do that. So the market for out of the box easy through hosting, being able to do it, just simplification of that process and just set it and go for these people because they want to be able to crochet hats or they don’t want to have to, or little animal goy creatures.

They don’t want to have to worry about are their plugins going to be compatible when WordPress updates and all these kind of things. That’s not going to work right. And that’s why they were with, again, another opportunity for shipping and all these kind of things. They can’t work out masses of shipping. That’s why they were with things like Etsy. Yeah, it’s really, I feel it’s like the artists, the crafters, the small businesses, they’re just getting squeezed out with that. So I’m hopeful that there’s a regeneration. I have a place in my heart for that. So I’m hopeful that we can do something for that because it’s a really important part of,

Jonathan:
So one of the themes for CloudFest over the past couple of years has been this focus on sovereignty and the importance and just better representing the global interests of the internet this year’s theme. And is this idea of, how would they describe it? The uniting the nations of cloud and this idea that the world is, there’s a lot of different interests. Internet’s this thing that brings so much of us together and at the same time to do it well, you have to recognize the differences. And I think the WordPress project, there’s such a good alignment with that because WordPress by its nature is incredibly diverse and there’s a resilience to that and a lot of complexity when it comes to recognizing the differences in cultures and the ways of working and thinking about things. And CloudFest to me, does a good job bringing together a lot of the best of that.

And you have an entire week in a place where this is how I set the stage for those who are thinking of going, attend, get there for the hackathon. If you can make sure that you’re there by WP Day, and that’s a great start to the week. And then you’re going to have the entire week. They have good programming throughout the week and you’re in this large shared space where you have opportunity to connect. You can also go off on your own if you want peace and quiet. There’s a lot of space and a lot of flexibility. And I really enjoyed it and I think I’m quite excited about this year.

Tammie:
I wanted to also say something where you were saying about the diverse, the other end from an end user perspective is being able to pay for your product. That is such a challenge depending on where you are, and that is a big part of access to these sites and the more closed platforms, access to them is really difficult depending on your location. So I think that is a big part. Diversity includes access to the content, includes access to the customers that are the right customers for you, includes access to be able to sell your thing that you make rather than having to go through a third party. So maybe you make something in a particular remote part, but you can actually sell it rather than having to go through someone that takes a cut of it. All of those kind of simple things that we can really empower, but just being able to pay using your currency that maybe isn’t accepted in certain payment gateways and all these kind of conversations I think is really interesting. When we’re talking about Woo and we’re talking about payment gateways and access, it’s not the part of diversity and inclusion that we always think about, but it really is the right to be able to sell and pay for your goods is really an inclusion and access

Jonathan:
And hosts are in a great position to execute on that for the locales and markets that they serve in a way that a large proprietary sort of homogenous organization can’t easily do.

Tammie:
Yeah, it’s the right to access and the right to access is that if you limit access to someone, you limit their potential. So being able to have access on both ends, like selling and purchasing is really, really important. And so yeah, it’s all big conversations to have. I’m kind of really curious how we solve those. There’s no good answers because we get into politics and legal, but it’s also really good answers for open source to start looking at. I think

Jonathan:
Let’s take a couple minutes to talk through the agenda. So it kicks off at 1:00 PM on Monday and once you get there it’ll be clear how to get there. It’s going to be at the Hotel Colosseo. It’s a great little spot I’ll be opening up and then introducing Kevin Ohashi who has the first keynote. His title is Can WordPress Save the Hosting Industry? Kevin, who I have the privilege of knowing for quite a few years, he runs ReviewSignal.com. One of the things that Kevin has done very well from the outset is be unbiased and objective. Obviously we all are. Kevin goes to great lengths to make sure that the things, the reviews that he’s doing, that it’s transparent, how it’s working, especially in a world where it’s really hard to, what can you trust? He did a bunch of work early on sentiment analysis in bulk to become a basis for, so anyway, he does great work.

He is not sponsored by any hosts, so he is going to be able to give his just candid perspective on the state of the industry and WordPress’ connection to it. Really excited about that. Yeah. Then we’ve got WordPress by the numbers with Jan Loffler from WebPros. He’s the CTO. And so WebPros is one of the big sponsors. What I’ve loved, I’ve got to work with them directly on this, is they see this as an opportunity to share their insights and perspective. So this isn’t like people already know who WebPros are, they’re the guys with cPanel and Pluss and regardless of feelings, the prevalence of them is unquestioned. So they’re in such a good spot to be able to give a perspective on things and WordPress is a growing interest for them. So that’s going to be great. The next one is not announced yet. I think I know what’s going to be, but it’s not on the agenda, so I won’t reference it. And then we have our first panel, which you’re going to be leading, creating Products in an Evolving WordPress. What was your inspiration for the panel?

Tammie:
So my inspiration was hearing stories of people like Beaver Builder who are working through how do you adapt and change in the space and letting product builders tell the story and people who are navigating that. We have a credible range from people who are supporting that to people who are doing that. So I am really excited. I caught out this specific story because it inspired me on that panel, but really just it’s not going to be like, here are the things that we are aiming for. It’s more just the stories and there’re going to be some challenges. There are, but what is it like? And also things like how do you take stacks? How do you take an existing product and adapt it? What decisions do you make? All of those kind of conversations I think are really important to start having and what ones do you not take is also really important to have. The panelists will have their own ideas, so I’m really curious how that shapes out in all these panels.

Jonathan:
That’s awesome. And next up we’ve got two sponsored talks. So WebPros is going to be talking about WP Squared and then Automatitc who’s a first year sponsor. We’ll be talking about what they’re doing with hosts and with both of those, I’m excited because they know the audience. They know this is their chance to put their best face forward and they’re going to do a good job. I’m excited about both those talks. Next we’ve got an AI focused panel that I’ll be leading. We’ve got Miriam Schwab from Elementor. She’s got a bunch of contexts. They’ve been doing some interesting things in the AI space. Sujay from Brainstorm Force. Jesse from Automattic will be representing some automatic interests and I’m excited to explore that. And panels is something I’ve always enjoyed and it’s just an opportunity to get a mix of perspectives and just bring different views together and have some interesting discussions. Panels can be, yeah, they can go either way, but I really enjoyed the process and we’ve had really good feedback from last year and I think folks are going to love this year. And last but not least, you’ve got this panel on sustainability, inclusivity in WordPress. What are your thoughts what we want to try and accomplish with that?

Tammie:
So we’ve got Birgit and Carole, and I’m really excited. I want to accomplish a space for them both to speak. I think that’s really what I’m hoping specifically. I think you can aim to want to achieve things, but sustainably do it. That’s what, hence the title is a different approach. So I think it’s going to be really interesting to hear their voices, particularly with Berg’s project in the hackathon and her recent initiatives. And Cowell is always doing that type of work. So it’s going to be really interesting to get those perspectives again with these panels. I think as part of it is we’re in that stage where we’re just finding out what the panelists want to say as well. You can have those intentions, but it’s also about what the panelists want to say, which is super exciting. So I am excited for both. I am learning how to do panels as well, so it is also super exciting.

I know, but it’s exercising that different part of your brain, so it is really good to learn different panels and you will be good too. So yeah, it is a good time to do it. I am very excited because I think these are maybe different panels too we’ve had before. We definitely are covering the product and then we’ve got the AI panel for doing some bingo check, but then having that, but having a sustainable inclusion panel I think is a good angle on it.

Jonathan:
Yeah, I think so too. We’ve also got something that we’re doing on the Guildenberg side, which is going to be interesting on Wednesday. We’re putting together this little event called Pitch Fest, and I think it well represents a primary, I think, value for folks in the Woo space. So CloudFest to me is really all about making and growing strengthening connections between folks in this highly diverse ecosystem of ours. And what we’re trying to do with Pitch Fest that I love is create this space where people can bring their product. Our current goal is to have 30 products and give them 90 seconds each.

We’re going to see how it goes, but give them 90 seconds each to share their product and what they’re looking for in partnerships. And what we’re trying to do here is create an experience that facilitates the partnership because folks will come in and some folks are really good at introducing themselves and others are more, and it’s like we want to create something that just makes that process easier. It’s a free event. All folks need to do is register in advance so we know who we’re working with and we can coach them through. And I think, yeah, I’m excited about that. To me, at its heart is about facilitating those connections, expanding people’s perspectives, giving insights into how other people are thinking. And I’m excited to see how it goes. We still have a lot of work to do leading up to it.

Tammie:
And it’s going to be pitching your product, but also pitching where you might need something for your product and not just investment,

Jonathan:
What you’re looking for.

Tammie:
Exactly. Yeah, and what I’m curious is would everyone just ask for investment? They could, but also maybe they won’t. And I kind of like that. If they don’t ask for investment, they might be asking for something very particular, like a particular partner in something or partnership, or maybe they want to partner in a particular area or they want to expand or have some mentoring. That is a really interesting angle, I think, to add to it, rather than just the investment which there will be there if they want to have that as well. So yeah, it’s kind of an interesting, and everybody should be able, sorry,

Jonathan:
I’m hoping that it goes, and this is such a good point because ultimately it’s about creating a space for people. Where I’m hoping it goes is to see products working more together where it’s like, oh hey, because we’ve had this conversation where two products will quite like each other but haven’t actually done anything yet. And say, okay, what can we do to help streamline that? And that’s for folks thinking about attending. I think what in particular about CloudFest is there is this expectation and looking for opportunities. So people are coming in with a, Hey, let’s work with each other. Let’s expand, let’s identify new opportunities, let’s try things. And then you have an entire week to explore and expand on these ideas. And it’s not about getting things done, it’s about the connections part. And that’s what we’re trying to do both with WP Day is facilitate more connections between the WordPress space and the hosting industry and then build on that throughout the week. So I’m excited to see how it goes

Tammie:
And you should be able to, in a very short time, pitch your product and what you do. And so it’s really good practice. It’s really difficult, but it’s also really good practice.

Jonathan:
I’m quite looking forward to it. And then on the WooCommerce front, yeah, we’re going to have folks from Wu there. I’m really excited about having Rosalyn from the marketplace team, Ronald Gijsel will also be there from the Woo team. So if y’all are coming out, please let us know. We’d love to connect with you in person. And it is not too late also for anyone wanting to register who hasn’t yet, you can get a free ticket using the code. So just put that in the registration and we’d love to see you guys there. Tammie, any final words? Anything that you’re looking forward to in particular?

Tammie:
I’ve got a lot. WordCamp Asia and then CloudFest. Looking forward to knowing the differences and enjoying the spaces over the next few weeks. I think that’s what I’m going to go with. So I’m really excited to gain some energy from that and then process it all. So what about you?

Jonathan:
I’m looking forward to seeing folks again. I’ve really just enjoyed the experience and just having a dedicated space to reconnect with folks, picking up conversations from the previous year. And I’m also excited to see WooCommerce’s presence expand and see what types of opportunities and conversations that opens up for folks there. So it’ll be fun. We’ll see how it goes. All right, Tammie, we’ll see you next time. Yeah,

Tammie:
Bye.