In episode 18, BobWP and Brad Williams are joined by Cody Landefeld of Mode Effect.
In this show, we are talking about agency approaches to growing WooCommerce stores, the Storefront theme latest update and WooCommerce meetups.
An Agency’s Focus
Our guest Cody Landefeld from Mode Effect shares how he took the approach of finding the right vertical for his agency and what he discovered to be the sweet spot for client work.
He also gives us some insights on how he built up his credibility and client list by producing consistent and useful content on their website. It’s something some agencies and store owners don’t understand: what strong content can do for the growth of their businesses.
He then talks about how themes and plugins that are used to start your WooCommerce site are often outgrown yet stay in place to only cause performance issues down the road.
Storefront Update and Usage
I share the most recent Storefront theme update and how the cover block brings more design to the homepage. And Cody share his thoughts on Storefront and how he would like to see more WooCommerce store owners making the choice of the standard for WooCommerce themes.
WooCommerce Meetups
We swap stories on the successes and struggles of our own WooCommerce meetups. This segment clearly points out that all meetups are not equal.
Make sure to check out Cody on Twitter and his successful efforts in creating content at Mode Effect.
Episode Transcript
BobWP:
Hey everybody, welcome to Do the Woo. We are back, and we are at episode 18. I have my esteemed colleague, Brad Williams, joining me. Hey, Brad.
Brad:
Hello, Bob.
BobWP:
How’s it going?
Brad:
Good. How are you doing?
BobWP:
I’m drowning.
Brad:
Over here on Friday, drowning. It’s been raining for like a week.
BobWP:
Last I heard it was a thousand days. Somebody said that on Twitter, so I thought, “Feels like it. Feels like it.”
Brad:
All good. Staying busy, so that’s good. What about you? How are things over there in Seattle?
BobWP:
Seattle area? It’s actually been pretty good weather. We got rain today, but everybody thinks it rains all the time. It really doesn’t, but that’s another story. So, it’s Frasier’s fault. That’s the only reason; everybody watched Frasier, loved Frasier.
Brad:
Yeah.
BobWP:
Well, we have a special guest. I’m going to call him Cody L, but I do know it’s Cody Landefeld.
Brad:
Thought he was coughing up with the L.
BobWP:
He went for it.
Cody:
Yeah, I got you freaked out there. Thanks for joining us, Cody.
Cody:
Oh yeah, thanks so much, guys, for having me. It’s always fun to talk WooCommerce.
BobWP:
Yeah, Cody’s in the space. He’s been doing quite a bit there, and I thought it’d be good to get him on and tell us a little bit about what he’s up to. I’m sure there’s one or two people listening who are saying, “Who’s Cody?” So why don’t we dive into what you do in the WooCommerce space?
Cody:
Yeah, absolutely. Love to talk about myself. So back in 2010, I co-founded a WordPress consultancy with my wife, Raquel Feld, and we focused on creating websites using WordPress. Somewhere down the line, probably about three or four years in, I realized it was incredibly difficult to differentiate and stake out the value of why we charged as an agency. We started to pick out e-commerce as a vertical that would be easier to quantify. So, we pretty much decided on it at that point, maybe three or four years in, and haven’t looked back. That’s what Mode Effect does. We are e-commerce consultants. We work on WooCommerce and help with other things related to e-commerce stores. We’ve got a great team that does some really good work supporting people technically on WooCommerce.
Brad:
Yeah, I love hearing about companies that clearly define their space, the vertical they specialize in. Most of us in this industry, we do WordPress. What does that mean? That means a lot—from bloggers to enterprise. It’s such a wide spectrum. Cody and I have gone round and round talking about this, but you took it one step further. You narrowed in on e-commerce, and now WooCommerce specifically. That had to be—I mean, was it a risky decision at the time? Going all in on a specific vertical, you might feel like you’re leaving money on the table for projects that aren’t related. Maybe talk a little about how you came to that decision and the risks involved.
Cody:
Oh yeah. I mean, I think any time you make decisions that are very specific or more focused, it always comes with a little bit of fear and trepidation. In our case, we didn’t say no to any WordPress inquiries; we kept fielding those requests and still work on some WordPress sites. But yeah, it was tricky. The realization is that it doesn’t happen overnight. Surprise, surprise! There’s no shortcut to getting mass success. Companies or individuals who become successful seem like they’re there overnight, but the reality is it took years of starting to talk about this vertical, writing articles, and making sure all of our conference talks matched up with the vertical. It has become something that’s still gaining momentum. So, it was scary, and it’s taken a lot of work, but it’s definitely in progress.
Brad:
Yeah, and your articles, content—I think Mode Effect and what you’re doing there is a real prime example of having a great content strategy, which a lot of companies lack. As much as we talk about publishing and writing content in the WordPress space, I understand why it probably feels like there are areas where time’s better spent than writing a blog post or recording a demo video. You’ve done it really well for years. You have a great strategy. If you haven’t seen it, go to modeeffect.com/articles to check out some of the great content. But talk a little bit about the content and the idea of using that as a strong marketing and sales strategy and how that’s helped you grow over the years.
Cody:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that’s the thing, right? It’s certainly by no means to raise a flag saying we’re smarter or luckier or better than anyone. It literally was just a decision to plant a flag and invest in a long-term journey that would hopefully get us more recognition from the types of clients we want to attract. It’s about hunkering down and deciding to write articles, finding out what people are searching for, and answering those questions in the articles. We’re probably four or five years into content marketing, and I can honestly say that it’s brought us really great opportunities to meet some of our best clients. A lot of times, even if it doesn’t create a client right away, you might hear from somebody who found us through search or another referral. They often check our articles to find out if we know what we’re talking about. For small business owners, they want to know that the company they’re entrusting their online business to understands the software they run their business on. That’s why articles have worked so well for us in this vertical.
BobWP:
Oh no, I was just going to say I can relate because I did a content strategy session at our local WooCommerce meetup recently, and it was very lightly attended. For all the reasons Brad mentioned and actually getting people to a physical space, I almost wish I’d had you there, Cody, to say, “Here’s somebody who works with clients all the time who will tell you why this is important.” But you weren’t there. You’ve got it down, and I wish more people had the time or resources to do it.
Brad:
It’s such a low-cost marketing effort, right? Ultimately it’s your time, which I understand there’s a cost to. But when we launched our company, I just started writing about topics around WordPress to get blog posts out every day or so. It started bringing traffic, and as we focused more on WordPress content, it brought in the right traffic. It’s always been part of our strategy to write about not just what clients are looking for but also to show we’re out there checking out new stuff. It’s the number one recommendation I give people starting out: write good content. Look at people like Cody—it’s such a great tool.
Cody:
The key thing with a lot of business owners—and we can all relate to this as small business owners—is that we wear a lot of hats. We have a lot to do, and we question the effectiveness of it because we might not see immediate results, so it’s easy to abandon. But with content, you have to be consistent to see results. Sure, you can pay for top spots on Google ads, but if you want to win with search, you have to invest long-term, be consistent, and dedicate yourself to learning about the content that will best attract your desired clients.
Brad:
It’s more of a long-tail, longer-term strategy. Back in the day, I would write blog posts in the evening while watching TV or a movie. I’d draft posts and tighten them up the next day during work. It was a good way to find time, and I really think it’s important. Bob, you had a light turnout because people don’t understand the value, but maybe that’s good for those of us who do.
BobWP:
Yeah, exactly.
Brad:
So, what I’m curious about now is, you’ve been doing e-commerce for a while. Where is the sweet spot for you? What are you seeing with your clients, and how have you found it? You start with WooCommerce, but then you look at how to help clients effectively.
Cody:
Yeah, that’s a good question. It’s continuing to get clearer. But the best fit for Mode Effect is stores earning between $1 to $10 million a year, probably closer to $3 to $5 million or $3 to $7 million. WooCommerce stores generating that much in sales and traffic unearth a lot of potential problems. So, there’s some budget to invest in solving those problems, and the client gets a great return because we know there’s likely a lot of traffic and performance issues. Right off the bat, we can identify speed challenges on the front end for customers and the back end for staff handling orders.
Brad:
It makes sense. People can get a store running quickly on their own, but as orders come in, scaling becomes the number one problem they run into.
Cody:
Exactly. Those companies typically either put it together themselves, or they had someone help initially, or hired someone small who doesn’t understand
e-commerce at scale. That’s the difference our team provides: we understand common challenges that e-commerce stores face. It’s not just specific to WooCommerce. Of course, WooCommerce is a big part, but there are other things.
BobWP:
So do you find that, which makes me think of extensions and plugins. Do you find that when you go in, a lot of times they’re using a plugin they found in the beginning that seemed perfect, but now it’s not serving them as well? Is that one of the hot points you find often?
Cody:
Oh, absolutely. That’s a perfect question. Think about a store when it first launches and starts getting a bit of traffic and recognition. As they grow to a point where they’re producing significant sales each month, the setup has to evolve. The typical “add a free plugin” approach just isn’t suitable at scale for e-commerce and WooCommerce. So, what we like to do for stores in this revenue range is set them up with a proper DevOps structure to come into more of an enterprise setting. That way, we can secure it, ensure stability, and limit who has access—whether it’s an internal marketing person or a co-owner. This setup avoids unnecessary plugin installations that could destabilize their store.
Brad:
Yeah, you don’t want people logging into the website and just clicking “Update WordPress” or “Update WooCommerce” on a production site. It’s about accountability and making sure everything is done with intention and a plan. Small changes could have devastating effects, whether it’s a full outage, slowing down the site, or hurting SEO. At a certain point, you have to grow up and treat your website like the professional business site it is.
Cody:
Exactly. We get calls from clients freaking out when something goes wrong because they clicked an update or added a plugin. I think, as consultants, we’re responsible for helping businesses understand these things and advising them on access restrictions. When they realize that their revenue dropped because of a ranking drop or a plugin, we could be the ones who get blamed and potentially let go.
BobWP:
Lots to consider.
Brad:
Yeah, interesting stuff.
BobWP:
Let’s see, what else do we have in Woo news? I’ll briefly mention Storefront, the popular theme. 2.5.0 came out and now has a cover block on the homepage, which adds a bit of extra branding. Do any larger stores actually use Storefront, or is it mainly for smaller startups?
Cody:
Actually, I wish they would. We put a lot of weight on Storefront because it’s the most secure, up-to-date, and trusted. But we often see people using themes with builders like Visual Composer from Envato. While Envato does a good job of marketing, these themes can bring massive challenges as the store grows. For clients at that level, we typically move them to Storefront if we’re in a position to refresh or change their theme.
Brad:
There’s probably the perception that if you pay for something, it must be better, which isn’t always true. Storefront is free, and while some people may think paid themes are better, Storefront has 200,000 active installs and over 3 million downloads, so it’s definitely being used.
BobWP:
Yeah, I use it on all my demos to make sure things won’t go sideways.
Cody:
It’s the industry standard for us, and we try to move clients to it if we’re updating their site. But the reality is that many store owners don’t care about WordPress or WooCommerce specifically. They’ll go with whatever has the best marketing, which is why Envato dominates that entry-level market.
Brad:
Yeah, it’s always a challenge to position WooCommerce against other e-commerce platforms, like Shopify or BigCommerce. These platforms are constantly advertising, and there’s often a perception that a paid solution must be better than a free one. It’s a lot about education.
Cody:
Yeah.
Brad:
Educating the masses is key.
Cody:
And a lot of weight is on the consultants. For Mode Effect, we’re not usually part of the first store builds, but I often recommend people start with Shopify. Setting up WooCommerce is not as easy as running your credit card on Shopify and loading your products. Shopify has made that process very smooth, whereas WooCommerce takes a bit more commitment and understanding.
Brad:
That’s my go-to answer when a family member asks, “Hey, I’m thinking about selling something online. Can you set up a WordPress site?” I’ll say, “Use Shopify for now.”
Cody:
Exactly. We tell them, “Prove the concept, see if it works, and if it does, we can consider moving you to WooCommerce down the line.”
Brad:
Yeah, for people just starting, I’ll often say, “Try wordpress.com if you want to play around with it. If it’s working well, then we can talk about WooCommerce.”
Cody:
Oh, and if you’re setting up a WordPress.com site, use Bob’s link.
Brad:
Yeah, Bob’s got a link for everything.
BobWP:
Haha, yes, I have a link for everything. But yeah, it’s interesting to see what people are searching for on our WooCommerce-focused blog. The top posts are still about basics—understanding variations, external products, coupons. The basics will always be popular, but it’s also about helping people extend WooCommerce beyond that.
Brad:
Exactly.
BobWP:
Another topic I wanted to bring up is WooCommerce meetups. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of meetups worldwide. WooCommerce meetups focus on workshops, presentations, and networking. Cody and his wife, Raquel, run the Phoenix WooCommerce meetup. Brad, do you have a WooCommerce meetup in Philly?
Brad:
No, we have the Philly Meetup group and a suburbs meetup group, which are WordPress-focused. While WooCommerce topics come up, it’s not a WooCommerce-specific meetup.
BobWP:
We tried starting one in Seattle, and it was around for about three years. I’m finally pulling back from it. We struggled to get people there, and the consensus I found after three years was that developers were the most likely to attend, but even finding them could be a challenge. I think store owners don’t see the need to attend because they don’t have the time or are just hard to reach. What’s been your experience in Phoenix?
Cody:
Well, we’ve been successful with attendance, partly because Raquel does a great job organizing. She has experience with the WordPress meetups, and Phoenix has a solid meetup community. We’ve had anywhere from 20 to 50 people at each WooCommerce meetup. Depending on the topic, we’ll get WordPress developers, store owners, and even non-WooCommerce e-commerce professionals.
Certainly, here’s the rest of the transcript with the corrections:
Cody:
It’s been neat to see that type of mix of attendees come out. I think that realistically, just like with content, it’s a consistency thing—keeping the meetup consistent. I couldn’t speak to Seattle, but the Phoenix area has a strong meetup community, and they come out to a lot of things, which has translated to WooCommerce meetups as well.
BobWP:
And I think Seattle is just different. I’ve been with the Seattle Meetup since 2000, probably about eight years now. Back when I was lead organizer, in the early years we had these huge meetups. We’d have these general WordPress meetups where 70 or 80 people would show up, easily. But then something changed, and I don’t want to say it was because I stepped down, but maybe that’s part of it (laughs). We saw attendance drop off over time. Now, we can still pull a crowd for WordCamp, but it’s treated more like a conference where people come to learn and connect, not necessarily as a community event year-round. It’s been challenging to build consistent attendance, but I’m glad to see it’s going strong in other areas like Phoenix.
Cody:
Yeah, so far, so good.
BobWP:
Cool. So anyway, anything else, Brad? Anything you want to mention?
Brad:
I think we covered it all this week.
BobWP:
Great chats. Cody, thanks so much for joining us.
Cody:
Yeah, always fun talking with you both.
BobWP:
What’s coming up for you guys? Any exciting events or projects?
Cody:
I’ll be going to the WP Engine Summit. Have you guys ever been?
Brad:
I haven’t, but I saw Emmett Smith is speaking.
Cody:
Yeah, that was the clincher for me. Emmett is my hero.
Brad:
I once saw him at a restaurant eating a steak. I didn’t talk to him, but I was thrilled.
Cody:
That’s awesome!
Brad:
I’ll be checking out WordSesh on May 22nd. It’s online and free. Go check it out at wordsesh.com.
BobWP:
Alright! I may hit up WordSesh too. Thanks, everyone. And I want to give a shoutout to our sponsor, Liquid Web. They’re offering WooCommerce plans for 69% off for the first three months using the code BOBWP69. You can go to bobwp.com/woo for that deal.
Cody:
Thank you, guys!
Brad:
Always a good time, Bob.
BobWP:
Alright, thanks everyone. You can subscribe at the usual spots. Until next time, we’ll see you later.
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