The Value of Small WordPress Events in a Changing Tech Landscape

Adam Weeks:
Hey, everyone, this is Adam Weeks from Open Channels fm and I am excited that I get to talk to Joe Simpson. We’re going to talk about small events, small WordPress events, word camps, and is now a time to bring them back. Do we, do we have the momentum? Do we have the enthusiasm or people saying, hey, we’re moving on to this AI thing. Like, where, where does this all fit? So I am going to unpack this topic of local Word Camps with Joe, because, Joe, you’re getting ready to start up a local WordCamp. You’re bringing it back to Santa Clarita. So without further ado, Joe, for those of the people who don’t know who you are, give us the quick, this is who Joe is and your place in this great big WordPress world.

Joe Simpson:
Hey, Adam. Well, first off, thanks for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about our local WordCamp here. As you mentioned, I’m starting up WordCamp Santa Clarita. This is our fourth edition. There was a break in between, but that goes back to my story. I’ve been in the WordPress community for quite a while. I attended the WordCamps here in Los Angeles, and there is a dramatic story that talks a little bit about me. In 2017, I had a heart event and I went on a leap of absence. And during that time, I attended my first WordPress meetup. At that meetup, the organizers from WordCamp Los Angeles were there and they were asking for people to volunteer. And I’d never been to a meetup before. I said, during my leave of absence, I’m gonna do things that sort of give me joy. And in the past, I had a great, you know, in my office, I work at a public transit agency and we had WordPress and I was able to build our sites there. So I said, the experiences that I had with WordPress, then I want to see over the next 90 days if I could recapture that. So I volunteered. And after volunteering, I said, hey, I want to speak. And then after that, I said, hey, I want to organize. I organized locally. Then I went on to the flagship level. And I’m just a WordPress fan. And like most of the people that listen to this podcast or in this space, the community is the important thing. So that brings me to where we are today. I wanted to see whether it’s time to bring WordCamp Santa Clarita back because that’s been such a great experience in my past and I met so many incredible people. Let’s get that going again and we’ll see if it’s going to be successful. And I’m hoping it’s going to be successful.

Adam Weeks:
Excellent. Oh, I’m excited to talk about this. Let’s jump back from kind of a large perspective from, from, and from your perspective, what is the state of, of local Word Camps? Give us just a brief sort of a history of them and your experience and where we are at today.

Joe Simpson:
Well, in terms of local Word camps, I think there’s one thing that needs to be clarified. I know around the world, if you look at the central calendar, there are a lot of local Word camps happening, but in the US They’ve dwindled down to zero. We’re the only local word camp in 2026. I know last year Montclair was the only one, and then the year before that it was two. So it’s gone from where there used to be a plethora of them back in the day to now where there’s one a year. So it made me wonder why. So that’s part of the reason why I wanted to really see if we could bring Work Camp Santa Clarita back.

Adam Weeks:
Excellent. Thank you. And so you’re getting ready to take on this big, a big project. These, these are not for the faint of heart. And you’ve had experience with them before, as, you know, you’ve done them in the past. Ready to bring this back? What gives you the enthusiasm, your own personal excitement? Like, what’s your, your why for. For this event?

Joe Simpson:
Well, it’s, it’s, it was part of, you know, I was sorry to start off with such a dramatic story, but part of my recovery was, was trying to really hone in on the things that gave me great joy and things that, you know, sort of fed my soul. And part of the great thing about WordPress and part of why we’re here today or part of why we work in this space is the people that we meet. There’s so many incredible people in this community, and those are the people in those experiences. And, you know, those conversations are things that I love having or I love, you know, I love being a part of. I continue that in the meetup space with WordPress meetups, but I really want that in person experience. I’ll share a story with you. I spoke at work at Montclair last year, and after I finished my presentation and went through The Q of A. Someone approached me as I left the stage and she said, you know, I’m from California as well, but there aren’t any work camps there. I really miss them. I really miss the in person experience. So I’m hoping that there are enough of us that are still out there that want to do this and we’ll find out on July 24th and 25th how many people are really ready to get back into the local word camp scene.

Adam Weeks:
Yeah, we know that what you and I are doing right now, I’m in actually Northern California. You’re in Southern California. Through the magic of the Internet online, we can, we could have a conversation, but there are things that we’re missing out on that you, you can’t do unless you’re, you’re in person. From your experience of those of, of being in person, what are some of the things that like, you really value? Like what are they. And that’s, that’s unique about a WordPress event. I just kind of be curious, like, you know what, why not just do this online?

Joe Simpson:
Well, it sort of connects to the story I mentioned earlier. I think the connections that you make. When I volunteered for work in plus Angeles way, way, way back in the day, I worked at the front desk and just getting to talk to each and every person that checked in. Those relationships eventually turned into networking opportunities which turned into, you know, potential WordPress work. So hosting these events are opportunities for us to see each other face to face, to talk about our projects, to talk about our challenges. One thing that we wanted to bring to bear with this WordCamp is the growth that we have with our meetups over the past six years. Post pandemic, our online meetups on the west coast have really blown up. We’ve gotten so many more people coming in. During our evening west coast meetup set, we wanted to sort of turn that into the in person experience. We want some face to face conversations to start up and build on those bonds that we’ve had before. So I think that’s probably the biggest thing I’m looking forward to also just having the opportunity to talk to the sponsors face to face. Some of the most exciting times that I’ve had is as an organizer, getting to know, have personal relationships with the sponsors and when you see them being able to ask a direct question, you know, for example, if you’re working with a membership plugin, say, hey, someone in our community had a question about this or, you know, making those connections and it makes it more personal. And I think the one thing I was just at a non WordPress conference last month. And one of the things I really miss was that personal connection. It felt like we were more at a distance. And I feel like that connection that you get in the WordPress space, the people that, you know, you carry those conversations forward. That’s what, you know, that’s what I’m really looking forward to, is re establishing those personal connections. And again, you know, that can sort of provide a boost that we all need as things change with AI and such.

Adam Weeks:
Yeah. You know, one of the things that’s interesting about a local, smaller event is that there’s a stronger likelihood that the person you’re talking with is someone that you could actually meet up with later. Hey, we have this great idea for this thing. We struck up this incredible conversation. But if you’re at a. At a WordCamp Europe or US, that person may live on the other side of the world. And sure, you can do virtual meetings, but the ability like, oh, wait, we’re. We’re only 20 minutes away from each other. We could meet up at a coffee shop and. And see where. Where something like this goes, it’s just. Which seems to be a pretty valuable opportunity. Have you had any experiences like that where you met at an event and you were able to continue those conversations in person?

Joe Simpson:
Well, one of the things, and I don’t know if I consider this a gift or not, is I love talking with people. And last year I was in Ottawa for WordCamp Canada, and I love to talk up the sponsors because, again, all of these relationships are important to keep our community strong. And as I was talking with one of the organizers, we found out that we had. Even though he was a Canadian far on the east coast in Ottawa, he had a love for west coast rap, which is, you know, an odd connection. But I said, hey, when you come to California for our word camp, I’m gonna take you down to the home of where hip hop happened in Compton. So those kind of relations, and on top of that, not just the musical thing, which is way off base, I invited them to come into our meetup later. They came in this spring and they talked about their product. So those kind of relationships offer them the opportunity to expose their product or their service to a new audience. So to me, I’m all about making those connections. And that’s part of what I love most about a WordCamp is, I mean, I love making those connections and seeing them follow through or blossom into something that’s bigger.

Adam Weeks:
Yeah, I love that. Love that. So let’s. Let’s Talk you mentioned up sponsors. Let’s. These events don’t happen without sponsors. That’s. This is, you know, because we know that the ticket prices don’t cover the, the cost of events. One thing that’s unique about a. A WordCamp event compared to other events, you know, you look at a lot of these other events and a ticket can be fifteen hundred dollars and you’re like, oh, wow, like that’s, that’s an investment versus. What are you. What are you guys planning on charging it, like, 50, $100 for?

Joe Simpson:
Well, it’s going to be. It’s going to be 50. We’re going to try to keep it.

Adam Weeks:
Yes. Yeah. And like, that does not cover the, you know, putting on. On this event. So it does require sponsors. If we could kind of play around with this a little bit and you were to make a case like, hey, Company xyz, where we’ve got limited number of dollars for sponsoring events, we’re going to do in 2026, we’re going to do this. What would be the argument of sponsoring a small local Word Camp versus a flagship WordCamp? What would you kind of like, really be your. Like your. Your sales pitch?

Joe Simpson:
Yeah, that’s a great question. One of the things that makes me a little different in this space is that I’m from. I worked at a government agency, a transportation agency, for three decades. And the enterprise is sort of what I make connections on. And when I talk to sponsors about why they should come to our local event, one of the things I talk about is making those kind of connections. I try to bring in all parties to the table and some parties that they may not use. For example, when I worked at the transit agency, we were on WordPress VIP. And part of that experience was larger enterprise WordPress, which may not be something that our local community is aware of, but I was able to bring our company in as a sponsor because they use the WordPress product. They needed an enterprise service. So just making those connections on a level where the sponsor sees the benefit. And I know one of the things I always stress with each planning cycle with our sponsors is I want to go above and beyond to try to make those kind of connections. When we’re hosting WordCamp Santa Clarita this year, a lot of the businesses in Santa Clarita that a lot of our community they use. For example, our transit agency is on WordPress. Our city government is on WordPress. So making sure to showcase those companies at our event, that’s something that sponsors want to hear about. They want to know who’s going to be there, not just the attendees, but I try to make that business connection. So again, it goes back to the enterprise angle is I try to bring companies that could really use these services to the table. And that’s a really, I think that’s a big benefit or something that sponsors. Sponsors, I’d love to hear.

Adam Weeks:
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think one of the things that you bring up is that maybe the organizers, the agencies involved say, hey, we want to bring someone using the software, not necessarily building it, but have made the decision, okay, we’ve looked at all the different options out there and we are going with WordPress. What’s really interesting is, well, well, why, like, why did you guys. What was the thought process that you have, especially from an enterprise level or, you know, these larger organizations? And I think something that, that you can do is because you’re local, you can get companies that they don’t have to fly and come talk to a large event and in hotels and all that, it’s, you know, half an hour from their house, it’s an hour from their house, they can come and share. We’re a local company or local enterprise. And, and being interviewed perhaps. And I talked with this. Jake Goldman is a good friend, formerly 10 up and now fueled. And we were talking about, yeah, he’s like, we’d love to take some of the, our clients, maybe bring one of them and interview them on stage as to why, what was their thought process behind WordPress and because I’ve even had conversations where like, well, is WordPress really secure? We’ve heard, you know, issues about security and, and WordPress has some baggage. But then when you’re able to say, well, but the, you know, WhiteHouse.gov is built on WordPress and I’m sure it’s attacked a lot more than your website is going to be. Oh, interesting. But you can also have that same conversation with like local people. Any. How does that resonate with you as far as those like local companies?

Joe Simpson:
Oh, for sure. And one of the things I really appreciated about being involved with us or attending, like for instance, I attended us in Portland last year, first time as an organizer. And one of the things that’s happened in the last couple of years that I really appreciate and what I really try to get across to sponsors and to those companies that you were mentioning is the ability to showcase, like the showcase day really gets me excited in relation to our event. Like if we can have the city of Santa Clarita, for example, come in and showcase how they’re using WordPress, how it manifests itself with the public, those are things that we could put on stage. What I also try to do with the sponsors is to do maybe do some podcast interviews in advance and get those out. So telling people how you can use WordPress, not just on a personal level, when you could see how a large agency uses it, it can inspire you to do more or from a sponsor perspective, to see how you can better gear your products and services to those larger agencies is part of what I try to do on a local level. And that’s not something that you see on a flagship level. I try to bring that down to the local level.

Adam Weeks:
Well and I think, yeah, like the flagship, I was at an event where they brought Disney there or NASA was, you know, these very large. And that’s all well and good and fantastic and inspirational, but maybe my agency, we’re not going to be tackling Disney, but we may be tackling, you know, still a good sized, you know, company and that may be where some of the local value comes, comes from.

Joe Simpson:
Definitely. And it’s, it’s just a way to show, you know, it’s like the projects we make may work on personally, they may not be on the same scale. It’s just seeing WordPress in different iterations that may again, it may inspire you to do something more or try to work to gear what you do as a skill set towards that new audience.

Adam Weeks:
Yeah, absolutely.

Adam Weeks:
you know, bringing this Word Camp event back. This local event, AI, has really taken off since the last Santa Clarita one. It’s what everybody’s talking about. It’s making people question WordPress in many ways. How does this work? Is WordPress moving fast enough? It is a paradigm shift on publishing and so many different things. And I think Bob’s required that I at least bring up AI at least once in this podcast for the algorithm.

Joe Simpson:
It’s perfect. I mean, that’s a catchphrase, right?

Adam Weeks:
But. But specifically, is there anything that you would like to do that you think a local, a small Word Camp event needs to have different now than it had in the past because of AI or any other different market conditions? Anything different?

Joe Simpson:
Well, I think what we’ve always done, or what I’ve always tried to do as one of the organizers, is each WordCamp is sort of unique to the time when it happens. So every WordCamp has one, a theme that we could talk about another day, but it also has a focus. So our first one was geared on WooCommerce. Then we had the first WordCamp that had 21 accessibilities, because we had a dedicated track to that. And that was during the pandemic when everybody was forced to be at home, you had to order online, and you found out all of these websites were terrible in terms of accessibility. So this WordCamp, we want to focus on AI as one of our core themes. So we’re really going to address it, because, again, you can’t get over that fear unless you look the dragon in the eye, so to speak. So having at least expose our local audience to the same topics that people are dealing with on the flagship level is important. I don’t, you know, I think for us, I think that keeps us current or that keeps us looking towards AI and sort of seeing where it’s going to go and how it’s going to affect our audience. We don’t really know where it’s going to go, but again, as long as we bring in some of the, you know, we always try to bring in the important voices in the WordPress space to talk about it as well. So hopefully that will address that issue and, you know, all we can do is work on it together.

Adam Weeks:
Absolutely. I think it’s important to understand one of the reasons that we have events is fear, or the fear of missing out or the fear of not getting on the boat or the fear of something changing. And I really want to go talk to someone who knows what they’re talking about, who has done some of this before, who has some type of an insight, because if everything is great, if the world is perfect, then I don’t need to leave my house because I get everything I need. But I have a desire to connect with people, to figure stuff out. I’m a little bit lost. Hey, what are they doing? Is this something that I should be keeping an eye on? And I think that AI is a big reason to be in person with people, in person with people that are dealing with these same kind of existential crisis. And I think that’s a big motivator.

Joe Simpson:
Oh, definitely. I know one of the things that’s been inspiring again, and hopefully it’ll come to bear during this camp is there’s so many people that are excited about it. And one of the ways that I’ve always learned is seeing someone in person talk about it on stage or talk about it in a conversation. And there’s four or five people in our community that I tend to ping about questions about AI, how they’re using it. And having those people come to Santa Clarita and present that to others on stage will help get over those fears, will help inspire other people. Because again, for me, what inspires me and the way I really learn is seeing someone or just being near someone that’s talking about it, and it really inspires me to do more. So hopefully we’ll have that at our Word camp.

Adam Weeks:
Yeah. I think when it comes to any kind of new tool, having someone who has messed with it, and maybe you’ve got some early adopters who, like, they have played with it and, like, oh, I feel behind. Like I’m. I’m behind in the. In this AI race, and everybody’s passing me by. Well, how do you catch up? How do you suddenly, you know, keep up with. Is that you go and learn from people who have gone before you and learn from their mistakes. The when the best thing is to. Yeah, you know, it’s great to figure it out yourself. It’s a whole lot better to figure it out from somebody else’s mistakes rather than your own.

Joe Simpson:
Yeah. And I think that one of the things that’s been incredible about this community since I’ve been involved in it is that each person that I go to with questions like this, nine times out of 10, they’re going to share their information with me. They share their knowledge with me. And so that’s really encouraging. It’s having the ability to, to talk to someone that’s a maker in the WordPress space face to face at a WordCamp or online has just been incredible. And it really, it sort of, it sort of provides the energy to keep the community going forward. So again, trying to harness that and bring that back to the local level is one of the reasons. You can call me crazy, but I’m, I’m an eternal optimist and, and I feel like this could be the start of something special in our community. But again, hopefully it’ll inspire other communities to do the same.

Adam Weeks:
Excellent. How do you think about speakers? You know, how are you? You know, it’s, you’re planning this event, and speakers are, are obviously a big reason a draw for, for coming to an event like this. How are you thinking about attracting the type of speakers that people are going to want to take time and money and energy out of their busy calendar to come to a local event?

Joe Simpson:
Well, one of the things, you know, one of the things that I’ve done in the WordPress space is speak. So during those times when I have the opportunity to speak at a camp, I’m always connecting with others. And I’m also, in another life, I was a toastmaster. So I love seeing great speakers. So I’m always on the lookout for the, for exciting speakers or speakers that present topics that I’m interested in an exciting way. So I’m always, I always have an eye out on it, and I’m consistently looking to invite those people to speak at our meetup if they, if they’re willing to speak at our meetup, though, maybe speak at our Word camp. I also, I’m learning from other camps as well, so I’m always looking. I, you know, I’m a WordPress nerd in that I check out live streams of other camps to see if there’s a speaker of interest. So I’m always on the lookout for that. But then also I’m trying to leverage the resources that are available to other WordCamp organizers. So, for example, I want to invite people to speak, to record if they can prerecord a topic. So I’m trying to learn from other camps. I know the larger flagships do the invite invited speakers, which is a way to drum up interest as well. So we’re going to incorporate the invited speakers this time around. So a lot of these things weren’t around the last time that we did our WordCamp. So again, I’m always on the lookout for how other people are doing WordCamps, but again, also leaning on what would speakers like to speak about? As a speaker, what made me feel more comfortable when I spoke at a Word camp and trying to lay out the benefits of coming to Santa Clarita. Santa Clarita is an incredible part of Los Angeles County. We have so many things to do in Southern California, but also we’re far enough away to get that small town feel. We have a lot of outdoor things, so we have mountains nearby. You can, you know, get into the desert. So all of those things I try to juggle to entice speakers to come, but again, try to make sure that they know as a former speaker, I have their best interests in mind and trying to make the experiences comfortable and as inspiring as possible.

Adam Weeks:
Yeah, I love that you brought up Toastmasters. There’s this, this thing that people like us do things like this and like, oh, I want to be like that. Well, what do we do and what does that person do to stay on top of their game? And yeah, I. Every Wednesday, when I’m. When I can, I have an online Toastmasters that I do, and it has been a huge benefit for me in my communication. I am a better speaker now because of Toastmasters. Having a small, intimate group that is going to give you feedback on your ahs and your ums and your likes and your ah, you know, those verbal pauses and all those things that we all need to get better at. A local Word Camp is a great training ground for those larger venues. And as you said, those local, you know, Word camps were, there. They’ve gone away. And if we can bring them back in a way that this is a great training ground, it’s a lot lower stakes than maybe a large Word Camp that you can feel comfortable. Hey, I’d speak at that event. I’m not ready to speak there. People are. Many are terrified of public speaking. But you have something to say, you have something to share. In order to do that, you need to get up on stage, you need to be able to communicate what you have, the idea you have in your head and the feelings you have in your heart. And things like Toastmasters are great, but also smaller events like this are also a part of those stepping stones for your career.

Joe Simpson:
Yeah, I feel like on the flagship level, the awesome thing about it is that it attracts a much higher profile of speaker, but on the local level, you have the ability to showcase the talent in your community. And like you said, really someone that may be hesitant about applying or, you know, you See that, hey, they have something to share, and you can encourage them. I have two quick stories to share. My journey as a speaker started in a similar way. I was at a Word camp, and I was walking through a break room, and one of the organizers was just doing an impromptu session with the people in the. In the break room, and he had a microphone, and he handed me the microphone as I was walking by, and he was like, you should really. Afterwards, he said, you should really present at a WordCamp. I don’t know if he was just, you know, blowing, you know, just, you know, just doing that in general, but it made me feel like, hey, I really should speak. So what. One of the things that I always try to do is really encourage people to share, because in the meetup environment, which is, you know, it’s a version of, you know, it’s a smaller version of WordCamp. If you feel comfortable enough or passionate enough about what you’re working on to share it with the. The community at a meetup, the next logical step is to share it to a. To your local audience. So one of things I’m proudest of is the very first speaker at our very first Word Camp was someone from our community who was relatively shy in our meetups, was always very passionate about certain topics, and he presented a topic at our first camp. So again, just trying to encourage. And that’s the next generation of contributors for WordCamps. You know, people that you don’t know are going to be contributors today. I know I spoke about someone that I met at WordCamp Asia who was on our online organizing team. He’s gone on to do some incredible things on the core team as a contributor. So you never know that person that picks up that microphone where they’re going to end up in the space. So it’s part of what I love to see is to see that new voice and see where they go with it.

Adam Weeks:
Love it. Very, very cool.

Joe Simpson:
Well,

Adam Weeks:
I’m inspired. Let’s do some more local WordCamps. Let’s get these things. As we’re starting to come to time here and wrap up, give me kind of just. If you can summarize, we’re going to look for that sound bite. What is it that gets you excited about a local WordCamp? Just kind of all the different things we are, our conversations. I’ve gone a lot of elements, professional fear, AI, all these kind of things. What’s your just quick, short plug for. Why should someone go to a local Word Camp?

Joe Simpson:
Well, it’s sort of like family. It’s sort of, you know, your family’s on the other side of the country. You haven’t seen them in a while. A Word Camp is sort of like a family for us, and we sort of take our community pretty seriously about, you know, our online community, really cares about each other. It’s time for that next step. It’s time for to have that reunion where we get back together in person. I think we local Word Camps are a way to reconnect. There’s so much going on in the world that can be intimidating. There’s so much change in the world in terms of how technology is changing. But again, if we come together and talk about those things in person, it’s going to make a better WordPress as we go forward. So that’s one of the things I really encourage people. I want to see what we’re doing as a community in AI. I want to see the kind of projects you’re doing in a showcase. So any of those ways to get people back together and to forge this path forward in WordPress is what excites me, and I hope it excites people that are going to attend our event.

Adam Weeks:
I think don’t undervalue inspiration. And the best way to be inspired is by being in person with inspiring people who are building the stuff and doing the thing. And like, yeah, I could do that too. Or now I know someone who does that and who can teach me. If someone’s listening to this podcast and they have one of two questions like, you know what? I live far away from Southern California, but maybe I should start my own local Word Camp, what would be the first thing you’d tell them?

Joe Simpson:
Wow, I’m telling you to do it today or do it yesterday. The story I’d love to share is that I worked downtown. I work about 50 and everyone spread out in LA. I work about 50 minutes from my office in downtown. And when I started going to meetups, I was getting home at 10:30, 11:00 clock at night, and I was like, you know what? I want to do one locally. And so I started the meetup here in Santa Clarita and it grew into a Word camp. Some of the stories that I love to share that people, they’ve gone on to start their meetups. I know two or three folks in our communities were inspired by what we were doing and they went on and started theirs. Or someone’s come up to me at a WordCamp and said, Hey, I saw you on stage and it inspired me to keep going with my meetups. So I Always encourage people to go ahead and do this. It’s something that we’re passionate about. And that energy that you give off in your meetup, people will pick up on it and they’ll want to participate. So that’s what I always love to lean on. When people ask me about why, yeah,

Adam Weeks:
go and do and if someone is going to be in the Southern California area and they want to learn more about the Santa Clarita WordCamp, how can they learn about what you’re doing and about the event?

Joe Simpson:
Well, the website is live. It’s at https://santaclarita.wordcamp.org/2026/. You can find it on OrgCamp Central page as well. We’re in the calendar section there you can reach out. There’s information about all our calls are open. So call for speakers, volunteers, sponsors is there. You can also find out about, hey, if you’re coming to Southern California, what’s happening during that time. So for example, the word camp, the World cup is happening in the US at that time. So if you’re a football fan, come to Southern California, some football and then you can stop over. So there’s information on what’s happening in the area. There’s also accommodations, information. There’s 15 hotels within 10 minutes of the venue. So it’s all that kind of stuff that helps you plan. We also have a great bit of accessibility information so those folks in our community that may have a disability, they can find out how the venue works for them, how the accommodations work for them. So again, we’re trying to make this event as open and as inclusive as possible. And what better place to do it than in Southern California?

Adam Weeks:
Beautiful. Joe, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your inspiring words. Yeah, being, being in person, these smaller events are valuable. I’d love to see more of them. We are stronger together. We can do more together than apart. And as much as it’s great to meet you over a call like this on a podcast, how much better it would be to be in person. So thank you so much for your time and again, my name is Adam weeks and for OpenChannels FM, I hope you have enjoyed this podcast and if you think someone else might enjoy this podcast, please share it with them and do the like and subscribe and all the things that you do on the the social channels. Thank you today and we’ll see you guys all again very soon.

Joe Simpson:
Thanks Adam.