Tech Careers, Global Moves, and the Rise of AI in the Workplace

Carl Alexander:
Hi, everyone. It’s just me today. I’m joined with Niesha Greed. Yeah, I usually call you Ny. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Introduce yourself, Ny.

Nyasha Green:
I am Nyasha Green. I am a software developer, LinkedIn learning instructor right now, a project manager. And yeah, I do a lot of weird stuff in tech.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, lots of.

Nyasha Green:
Specify weird. Yeah, yeah, I’ll specify the weird later.

Carl Alexander:
But yeah, you want to specify weird.

Nyasha Green:
I don’t know. Like, I feel like I just do everything. Like, if someone comes to me with a tech problem like hardware or software, I. I usually just fix it for them, not just family.

Carl Alexander:
That’s great. Yeah, I mean, I’ve always felt like this was a type of programming that people, like, I call. We call them generalists. Right. Like, you would probably like the generalist programmer, right? They. Yeah, you basically. I always say you’re the Navy SEALs of basically programming. Right? Like, they’re like, hey, can you fix this problem? And they’re like, yeah, I’ll figure it out. And then they just like, toss you overboard.

Nyasha Green:
And no life jacket.

Carl Alexander:
No life jacket. Because I’ve done the same as you. Like, I’ve been pm. I’ve been like, things are too slow. I guess I’ll manage the project, you know, like, things aren’t going at the pace or the way I want to. So you also teach with, like, LinkedIn learning, right, too?

Nyasha Green:
Yes. So I do get to teach. Hopefully none of my jobs. I have four revolving jobs right now. Or three. Three or four. I hope none of the others see this. But LinkedIn learning, I don’t work them all at the same time. I have to, like, preface that. It’s like, no, I sleep at night. But LinkedIn learning is my favorite job. Like, getting to teach people. And it’s basically whatever I want, not whatever, you know, I do have to get it approved. But you have full control over, like, the course tlc, what I teach, how I teach it. There’s a little bit of restraints, but I can pretty much go crazy with whatever I think people need. So that’s my favorite thing to do. If I could teach, like, full time, I would.

Carl Alexander:
How did you get in touch with them?

Nyasha Green:
So. Oh, my God. Is it now. It’s years ago. I can say years ago now. It’s been that long. I feel like I started yesterday.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, it’s been years. Like, when we. When I came on your podcast, you had already been there for at least a year, I think.

Nyasha Green:
Yes. So two major things happen. I would always cold in public on Twitter. Now I’m not calling it X on Twitter.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah.

Nyasha Green:
And a few people from LinkedIn followed me, and then they asked me if I would like to try out to teach for them because they like how I taught in public, and they said I had an easy speaking voice and I was very patient. And so I talked to my good friend Ally Nimmons. I don’t know if you’ve ever met Ally, but she also taught well, teaches for LinkedIn learning.

Carl Alexander:
Oh, yeah, yeah, I know Ally. Yeah.

Nyasha Green:
Yeah.

Carl Alexander:
She’s moved a couple of places. She was. Yeah, yeah, she’s great.

Nyasha Green:
She actually referred me directly to someone there as well. So I had about several people asking me, but I did not think I was good enough to teach. I was like, I don’t know this stuff as well. I’m like, I’m learning as I go. That’s always how I’ve learned things. I learn as I go. And she was like, basically just teaches you, though, too. She was like, if it’s good enough for you, it’s good enough for everybody. Right.

Carl Alexander:
This is something I’ve done a talk on, too, and I think you can probably relate to this, is that I think when you just learn something, it’s almost the best time to teach it because you’re still got that, like, beginner’s empathy in you.

Nyasha Green:
Yes.

Carl Alexander:
Right.

Nyasha Green:
Yeah.

Carl Alexander:
Like, nobody likes the crotchety old teacher who’s been around the block five times. And he’s like, why don’t you understand this? This is so simple. And then you’re like. And it’s like, yeah, maybe for you. He’s been doing it for 30 years, but I’m learning it right now. And they don’t remember what it was. Like, it’s not necessarily their fault. Also, like, it’s hard to remember the beginner’s, like, journey and mindset. So it requires a lot of empathy to just constantly put yourself in that headspace when you’re more advanced or you’ve been doing it for decades sometimes.

Nyasha Green:
I agree with that a hundred percent. That’s actually. Sometimes I’ve gotten pushed back because my course and it’s not the majority. It’s only a few people. But it’s just a case. A case example of a few people would say, well, hey, you know, I like your course, but, you know, can you make it harder? And it’s like, especially when we talk about WordPress, because I must. Well, all of my courses out right now are WordPress, but I’m pivoting right now. But WordPress people don’t think. People in WordPress especially, that have been there a long time, like you said, they think that there’s no learning curve or, oh, it’s simple to get past. You just have to get past this. You just have to get past the setup. Once you do it a couple times, you’ll be there. Okay. But these people haven’t done it a couple times. Like, this is their beginning. This is their first time seeing this. I want to go through all the nuances of that. I want to go through all of the things I was stuck on. I was stuck so many times. And when I started working in WordPress over things that people or I believe even now is simple, but it wasn’t simple. You don’t know what you don’t know. So I always like to take things easy. You know, some of my courses might be too easy for you, but that’s okay. We have harder courses. Just go on to those and, you know, maybe I’ll have some harder courses specifically for those courses sooner or later. But I like the slow and easy approach. I like to meet people where there are or where they’re already at, and then I like to go with it and go with the flow. That’s how I learn, and that’s how I teach.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, I think it’s great. You know, I listened to what you’re saying, and it’s like, it’s really easy to have, like, imposter syndrome around teaching. And one of the reasons I bring that up, the also that it, like, when you just learn something, it’s actually like the right time to teach. It is because it kind of goes against that idea of the imposter syndrome. Because usually when you just learn something, you’re like, I can’t teach this. I just learned it. Like, and it’s like, no, actually, this is the great time. It’s the great time. What you’re thinking is imposter syndrome is actually the opposite. Like, it’s almost like the people that are more advanced have done in Kruger, like the, you know, like, instead. And they don’t realize that they’re not where the person is right. Like, they don’t have that empathy. So, like, you’re actually at the perfect spot because you’ve got maximum empathy, which I think is all. Is as important to teaching. Like, the greatest teachers are super empathetic. Like, of course they. They’re entertaining. They teach well, but they also have to be able to do that. They need the empathy. It underlines everything.

Nyasha Green:
That’s another thing. I really like that they let me basically write my course. So if you take my courses, I’m, like, always joking in my course. Like, I think last time, my last course, I was doing, like, a setup. And I told my students, I was like, I set this up for you. Cause it’s a little difficult, but I do have instructions in the file folder. And I was like, Nyasha went through that, so hopefully you won’t have to go through that. And that’s a Jay Z lyric. And I said, it’s okay. And I just kept it. Like, my producer didn’t catch it. Nobody caught it. And I just kept going. And then when I was, like, looking at course comments, somebody was like, oh, my God, I’ve never seen a Jay Z lyric in a LinkedIn learning course.

Carl Alexander:
Yes.

Nyasha Green:
Yeah. Somebody got it. So.

Carl Alexander:
Yes. The Easter egg. Somebody found the Easter egg. It went true. Passed through my editor. It passed through everybody, but somebody found it, Found the Easter egg.

Nyasha Green:
Yeah. I love it.

Carl Alexander:
That’s great. It’s so exciting that they have this kind of freedom. You mentioned you were pivoting. What can you share about that? Or is it, too. Is it, like, secret?

Nyasha Green:
I can’t share specifically, but I can just say in general, I’m pivoting toward teaching AI different AI concepts. I can’t say specifically what. We can’t say what it is until the course is out. But I’m teaching people how to take their existing skills and adapt to AI. Just not. Not necessarily, like, oh, this is how you build your own learning language model. Or this is how you build your own. Nope. I was gonna accidentally spill the beans, but, yeah, just taking existing skills and adapting to AI because people are losing their jobs to AI. Like, I lost my job to AI. A couple of my friends have. So we have to adapt or get left behind, unfortunately.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, of course, of course. Like, well, it’s one of your jobs, right? Like, you. You said you. Yeah, you’ve. We talked about that. I think you’re, like, your journey, like, all these. Like, having to do all these jobs at the same time. Well, on and off. I mean, it’s a bit like A consultant like you’re doing, you have different clients coming in at different times, right? Like, yes, that, that I’m, I’m good at reframing things. FYI. Like I’m really good at seeing the, like at reframing stuff for people because I was just. The way you were explaining it, I was like, oh, this isn’t that different from how I do consulting. I have clients that come, I do work for them for a couple of months or like one project and then that’s delivered and then I don’t hear from them for a couple of months and then they come back and I do more work for, for, for them. It’s obviously really scary to not have that consistency. My therapist calls it predictable uncertainty, basically.

Nyasha Green:
I like that. I like that.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, I. She’s clever. She’s clever. But yeah. How did, what happened? If you don’t mind sharing like what happened with the AI job loss? Like what did they feel they could replace you with? I still don’t feel like AI can replace like at least what I like. Developer jobs 100% like can help. But it, I don’t feel especially trend like as much as like the job market’s really bad because they over hired. I still think it’s a lot of the over hiring from COVID like spilling out a bit more than AI stuff from what I’ve seen. But the two of them definitely not helping together.

Nyasha Green:
So I don’t, I haven’t been officially told that.

Carl Alexander:
Okay.

Nyasha Green:
My job was lost to AI, but my company pivoted from web development to AI development.

Carl Alexander:
Okay.

Nyasha Green:
So that’s like. Yeah, so there’s still some web development, but it’s, it’s, it’s not a lot. So yeah, that’s kind of how the app and but that was like. I think when we first, first met, I was working that job. Yeah. San Diego Word Camp. That’s the job I had. Oh, I can tell you this now. So my last can’t Speak podcast episode was on what I was doing the last year or two. So I got another web development job. Right. Yeah, I was laid off from that one as well.

Carl Alexander:
Okay.

Nyasha Green:
And so that was my second layoff. I was like, I can’t do this anymore. I was like, I can’t. So I was working four jobs. I was writing tech articles freelance. I was doing web development work for like a small company. Freelance, like and it was exactly how you mentioned it. They would say, hey, we have an issue. Can you go fix this? And I’m like, yeah, what’s going on? And they’re like, you got to figure that out. Bye. So I was doing that. What else? What was my. I had an. Oh, I was doing LinkedIn learning. I put out a course last summer and I was working overnight as a security guard. That was my fourth non tech job. So I didn’t talk about it. On our work as well? No, on the episode. Was I doing that then? I might have been doing that then, I think. I don’t know.

Carl Alexander:
You might have been. Yeah. So just for the listeners I did the podcast that I came to speak on is she was. How did it start? You posted on link on Twitter or LinkedIn something about work, like giving yourself too much to your job. And I said, yeah, there’s like this kind of. It was, I think Derek Thompson. But anyways, I’d come out with this article around that time that was like, about workism. Like creating this kind of like religious cultish kind of like.

Nyasha Green:
Yes.

Carl Alexander:
Because there’s less religion and ways for people to connect and have community. A lot of it has fallen on work, basically. But work isn’t your friend. Try to leverage that. Like, they want you to feel part of this community. So you give a lot of time and you work there, you live there and everything. But it, you know, when AI comes or we overhired for Covid. Oh, well, you’re not so much of a family anymore, you know, like you’re an expense. So it’s just being careful around that whole idea of giving, like giving yourself to your job.

Nyasha Green:
Yes. When you brought that to me and we talked about it, like, that has fundamentally changed. Like, not only how I look at work, but look at communities too. Like, I moved. I’m originally from. Sorry. I’m gonna do a lot of Southern United States geography.

Carl Alexander:
It’s all great. I know a decent amount.

Nyasha Green:
I’m originally from South Carolina and I’m from like a really small town, like, rural South. Like, if you watch the movies and like TV shows, the stereotypes, that’s it. Like, there are cows and horses and three people in like Mountain Dew. It’s like that.

Carl Alexander:
I love Mountain Dew. Like, I was born in the South. The only shame is that Canada doesn’t really have Diet Mountain Dew. It’s really hard to find. And I don’t drink sugary versions of drinks, so it’s something I drink a lot when I go to the States. But I love Mountain Dew, dude.

Nyasha Green:
Oh, I cannot stand it. It’s like I feel like my heart starts vibrating. But yeah, it’s very stereotypical.

Carl Alexander:
I mean, it looks like toxic sludge. Like, it literally is green. Like, toxic. It literally looks like comic book toxic sludge when you.

Nyasha Green:
I feel like they molded it off of that. Like it has to be, but like it was. But in the, in the south, especially if you’re in a small town, there’s a lot of community focused things. There are a lot of building also, if I have a really big family, I have 17 nieces, nephews. It was 16, I was telling everybody, 16. Now we have 17. We’re 17 now.

Carl Alexander:
Oh, my God.

Nyasha Green:
So, yeah, I have a. And that’s just like, that’s my family. Like, intermediate family. I have like six siblings. My mom had 10 siblings. My dad has six. My dad, my grandmother, his mom had 16 siblings. He has 52 first cousins. So, like, this is all. Yeah. So my family is huge.

Carl Alexander:
You want a contrast? Do you want the most intense contrast? I have zero cousins.

Nyasha Green:
Yes.

Carl Alexander:
I have an aunt who never had a child. My mom’s a unique child. Yeah. It’s actually like crazy. And it’s so drastic too, because my partner is Brazilian and it’s closer to you. I just went to her brother’s wedding in Brazil earlier, and they had four generations there. Like, her daughters. Like, great grandfather was alive. Like, I’m like, I. Like, I didn’t know most of my grandparents, you know, like, it’s. To me, like, it’s like, mind boggling.

Nyasha Green:
So just like, that’s incredible though.

Carl Alexander:
Yes. Contrast and lived experience. But yeah, so that when I hear big families like that, wow. Like Christmas wild.

Nyasha Green:
You know, it’s crazy. Like, we don’t have as many people. Like, my mom, out of my mom’s siblings, she had kids. One of my aunts had kids, and an uncle had kids. So all of us are coming from all of those people. Like, it’s insane. And like, I have no children, but all of my siblings have kids. I’m the youngest and like, everybody has like a ton of kids, so. But community. So I’ve always been like, in. I’ve always been surrounded by a lot of people, even the few people who weren’t family. Because a lot of people are related. It’s always been a focus on helping people, being together, doing stuff together, just always being surrounded by a lot of people. That’s how I grew up. I moved from South Carolina to North Carolina, which is only up a state, but it’s a lot different. And I’m in Charlotte, which is like now our major city. I’m from a small town of like 6,000 people, and I’m In a city now with millions of people.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah.

Nyasha Green:
And it’s been completely. It’s crazy how I view community now. And like, going back to our episode on work is having to find that community in work. I think I never had to search for community like that. Even when I went to college. Like, I went to a very large university, 35,000 people were in my freshman class. So, yeah, so I’ve never had to search out community. But when I moved here, it’s a major city, but people are very to themselves. There’s not a lot of third spaces. There’s not a lot of community building. And for me, for the first time in my life, it’s like, oh, my God, what do I do? How do I talk to people? How do I make friends? And I’m an extrovert, so I go out and make friends. But most people don’t want that. They’re to themselves. They’re like, hey, you’re cool. Stop talking to me. Like, So I think I really leaned into work to find that community. As a result of that, I was like, hey, I’ve been working here. I think I had been working at my job two years at that time. I was close to all of my co workers. Four of my co workers even came, drove to my city for my birthday. Like, that’s how close we were. And then when I was laid off and I lost that, I was mentally so unwell and drained because I had what was my community then. I didn’t have it where I lived, I didn’t have it where I worked. It was like a lot of time by myself or with one or two other people. So I have. When we, when you first brought that to me, like, when I was like, oh, we have to talk about this, like, it seriously has fundamentally changed the way I view work, life, community, everything. So thank you.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, we’ll. We’ll share.

Nyasha Green:
We’ll.

Carl Alexander:
Bob will share the. The episode in the show notes, if you want to. If you want to listen to it. But yeah, I think this idea of community is strong even. You know, I think there’s something beautiful about working somewhere where you, like, have community. I think that’s why it’s, like, so appealing because, you know, we dedicate so much of our time to work. Right. Like, it’s going to be. Most of our life is going to be working. So, you know, it’s great to have family and stuff to come home, but you’re still going to spend a lot of time with these people. So having a place where you can go and you feel like you belong and stuff is really intoxicating and great. It’s just. You just have to keep in mind that, you know, at the end of the day, you have to protect yourself and all that. That’s like the main thing. Because.

Nyasha Green:
Yes.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, it’s difficult. It’s a tough balance because. Yeah. Like, the loss of third spaces in general and society makes it like. Oh, like I talk about this, like, personally with a lot of people because, like, for example, in Montreal I used to go train at the YNCA and it basically closed because of COVID But I remember going to the YMCA, there was so many, like, elderly people, like community, like they come play cards, chess and stuff. And that’s gone. Right. Like, that all that space is gone. So I think a lot about that and all that. But yeah, your journey is like so impressive to me, like, all the jobs. And then last year you went to Korea.

Nyasha Green:
Like, I was in Korea last month. I meant to tell you, we haven’t talked in so long.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, we haven’t talked. I mean, I just sent you the like, autism, Korean, like, K drama, like, question, but no. So, okay, so you’re. You went back to Korea, so that’s like your second or third trip.

Nyasha Green:
It’s technically my second. I had a layover in Korea, like the first time.

Carl Alexander:
Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Nyasha Green:
So second. But yeah, I went for. Actually for two weeks last month. So I was there for two weeks and. Which I think I went for a week last time, but, you know, it takes like so long to get there. So I was only really there for a couple days. But this two week trip was freaking amazing. Like, holy moly. Like, it was, it was so cool. And like I had been learning for like a long time. Like, well, not a long time. A few months. I was trying to learn more Korean and I got my basic. Hi, how are you doing? Thank you. Excuse me. That’s. That’s what I got. But it was so awesome for me as like. So as American. You know Americans a lot since you’re in our cousin. Cousin Canadian.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah. And I visited a lot.

Nyasha Green:
Yeah. And you’re. Yeah.

Carl Alexander:
So many people. Yeah.

Nyasha Green:
Yeah. So, like, you know, a lot of people don’t know multiple languages here, unfortunately.

Carl Alexander:
No.

Nyasha Green:
It’s even like, I try to consider myself very worldly. But when you told me, like, when we talked, you were like, yeah, English isn’t my first language. I was like, what’s his first language? You’re like, oh, duh, French.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah.

Nyasha Green:
But it took me a second to think about it, because your English is really good. And like, I just didn’t think about it. Like, I don’t, you know, But I feel like it’s an American mindset. But also I do, I speak Spanish, so I’m one of the Americans. I can speak another language. But it was so great to, like, this is going to sound weird to be someplace and not hear English.

Carl Alexander:
I get it.

Nyasha Green:
Yeah. I like not hearing English. I like, not. I liked, you know, and especially to make my mind work into, you know, you know, Korean, you know, some Korean, you know, the placement. Like, try to figure out what they’re saying. So that was actually very refreshing.

Carl Alexander:
I have a whole theory around that. If you want to hear it, like, yeah, because I, I, I’m one step further because you. So we should talk about that after. I really, I’m really curious about, like, what attracts you to, to Korea, but for me, it’s Tokyo as you know, right. Like, I went to Tokyo like, three separate times, right. But I never tried to learn Japanese, really. I wanted to go there. And not only I wanted to be as alien as I could be, basically. Like, I. And the reason for that is I, I wanted a place where I could really shut down the level of work that my brain did. So the fact that I know no Japanese for me means that I’m not even trying to read all the signage and stuff. It just, it’s got this surreal experience of, like, you’re kind of like, in. Well, for. I’m in Japan, so I’m like, kind of in this anime, and I’m just, like, walking around and it’s just art. Like, it’s just like, art. Like you’re in a movie and you’re just, like, watching things. So I, it was really key for me, but I think there’s something cognitively for some people, I’m not saying for everyone, but for me, like, just being somewhere else and just completely disconnected. Like, no English, no nothing. And then you can, like, just rest, you know, like, your brain can rest. Yeah, in some ways, like, it’s not necessarily restful because you’re in a new place and you have all this, this new stuff coming in. But it’s restful in different ways, right? Like, and, like, you don’t have to think about language or, like, all of this stuff. So I don’t know if that’s what it was for you, but for me, it was a really important part of those. That whole going over there was just this kind of whole mental disconnect.

Nyasha Green:
It was exactly like that. And like you hit something like really cool on the head. So like I. And you know, we could talk about later what drew me to Korea. I’m also very fascinated by Japan. My mom actually lived in Japan when I was a teenager. She worked for a company that, yeah, she went there and I didn’t get to go. So I was like bummed out. But I’ve always been fascinated by Japan as well. But I’ll tell you what got me into Korea in Japan and everything else. But when I was there. So this is about. That was my third time in Korea. So I am 6 foot 2. So I’m like one of the tallest women most people ever see and I’m African American.

Carl Alexander:
You’re 6 foot 2 would be like we’re at same height or you might be taller actually.

Nyasha Green:
Like we’re the same pie.

Carl Alexander:
Like I’m around that. Yeah, I’m. We’re close. Like I’m about around 6 foot 2. Like I don’t remember exactly, but that’s usually where I put myself.

Nyasha Green:
Actually. I feel like you’re taller than me. I don’t know. We have a picture together and I feel like you’re taller than me in this picture.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, we have a picture together. But yeah, anyways, you’re very tall.

Nyasha Green:
Yeah. So and like, you know, it’s very tall just in general, but very tall for a woman or a man in Korea. And I was worried like people would come up and talk to me because people come up and talk to me in the United States like I’m tall in the United States. But like I was worried people would talk to me and I wouldn’t know what to say or I wouldn’t understand.

Nyasha Green:
Over to woocommerce.com and so this time I was like, well, I’m going for two weeks instead of just being in Seoul. I took a train to Busan, which is a great, great horror movie. I love it. I watched it on the train and.

Carl Alexander:
Seoul to the coast. Right. Like, it’s the warmer that. Yes, it’s the kind of like beach town.

Nyasha Green:
Right?

Carl Alexander:
It’s like kind of beach. Yeah.

Nyasha Green:
I went to the beach. It was so great. But so we lived. We lived. We stayed in Seoul for most of the time. And a lot of people spoke some English in Seoul, so, you know, we could get around. And I spoke my little bit of Korean in Busan. There were a few people who spoke English, but most people did not speak English. So that was the big. Like, I was fully immersed in Busan and, like, I heard almost no English. And like, when I went to speak with someone that shops, we just basically had to some English, some Korean or point and things like that. But Google Translate that too. Papago. Google Translate. So one of the most interesting things, and tying back to what you were saying about being like, it’s art. Like, I would just walk. Like, I was just walking through by myself a lot, and people were like, again, I’m like, I’m a tall African American woman just walking through Korea, like, where they’re like, I saw two other African. I don’t know if they’re African American. See American black women the entire time I was there. So, like, a lot of people are, like, looking at me and then they’re walking up to me and they’re like, speaking to me in Korean. And I’m like. And it was so cool because, like, you know, I could tell by. You just have to use body language and facial expressions. Like, it was all positive. And, like, it was. It was great, like, to not know, but know because, like, like I said, I could tell it was all positive. Like, one woman, she, like, dragged me into her shop and she wanted, like, me to put on dresses. So she dressed me and we. She spoke no English. And I. And like, I tried to speak to her and she was like, I just don’t understand. So, like, stuff like that, I can totally relate. Like, I. I want my brain to do that again. I’ve only. I’ve been back to work for a month in my full time. I work a lot.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah.

Nyasha Green:
So I’m like, oh, my God, if I can go back to that little shop in Busan and let this lady just, like, dress me and I don’t have to speak to anybody, that would be great.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah. Yeah. And another factor of the disconnect for me is the time change too. Like, you’re really on the other side of the planet. Right? Like, you’re awake when people are sleeping. You’re sleeping when people are awake. Terrible for me. For some, like two out of my three trips. It was like horrible in the sense. I had to do meetings all the time and it’s like middle of the night. But it’s still. I still enjoy the disconnect again. I think there’s something attractive to certain minds about like even me. Like, I’m so. I mean, we’re both super introverted. Extroverted. So sorry. We’re both super extroverted. No, but you, you talked about it earlier, right? There’s something interesting about the fact that an extroverted person wants to go somewhere where nobody wants got. Can talk to you. Yeah. Like, and I think people don’t realize that even extroverts need to. I’m more ambivert. Like I have introverted side. Extroverted side. But basically you need a bit of that recharge time. Right. And how you get it can vary from person to person. But it’s kind of funny that we’re on the same page. Like, I listen to you and I’m like, oh, this is very similar to me. Like I. I want to be over there. It’s the same thing. You can be in Tokyo and most people don’t speak English or won’t speak English to you because there’s at least. I don’t know if they have the same concept. I’m going to maybe mispronounce it, but it’s an like basically public face. Private face is a concept in, in Japan. So people will always be friendly to you. Like, for me, it helped for my autism too. Like I, I call it like, I like to go there when I’m burnt out autistically, where I don’t have to read faces, I don’t have to read people. I don’t have to interact with people. And like you said, it’s very like, it’s. I. I remember I don’t watch a lot of anime now, but I used to watch a lot of anime. And there’s just something about like, I can like both of us, like with big headphones sitting on a train. Like, you know, the tall, the black woman, like in the train, just in a different world, surrounded by like Koreans and me, like the white guy with big headphones. And everybody’s like sitting and commuting with their suitcases and their suits and talking. And then you’re just there. You’re literally just there observing and being part of the scenery. The, the scene. For me, it’s very movie like when I that like by feeling of It.

Nyasha Green:
So I can relate with that. I love that. And I, I do want to go to Tokyo. I guess I’ll tell my story now. So. Yeah, because I don’t want to be like one of those you like, so obsessed with different Asian cultures person, you know. But I have a lot of family members who are Chinese, Vietnamese, just like married into my family. And so I grew up having like some knowledge of like China and Vietnam. That was like my strong point. And then my mom living in Japan and watching anime growing up. I still watch anime now.

Carl Alexander:
You have an anime poster? I. I want to say it’s one piece, but I’m not sure.

Nyasha Green:
Like, oh yeah, you say no, no, no, no, no.

Carl Alexander:
I don’t know. It’s not one piece. What is it?

Nyasha Green:
My hero. Can you hear me? My hero academia.

Carl Alexander:
Oh, my hero. My hero. Yeah, it’s like my hero academia or something. Is that.

Nyasha Green:
Yeah, a local artist in South Carolina actually drew that. So I got that from an artist.

Carl Alexander:
That’s great. But yeah, we can see it.

Nyasha Green:
So I, you know, knew some stuff. And then like I, when I went to college, I was a history major and then I worked in sales. So non traditional tech background. Right. And so I hated sales. I was making money, but I hated it. And I was like, I want to do something else. And a few of my friends, we got together and we were like, we should go teach English in Asia. We should teach English in Asia. We can learn another language and we can teach and we all love teaching. And so I said, yeah, I’ll do it. And so I started applying to different countries. I applied and I was accepted to teach in China, Japan and Korea. And so I didn’t want to be the ignorant American going to these countries and not knowing anything about them. So I immersed myself more in Chinese, Japanese and Korean culture. That’s when I first found out about it. They were like a young group. Then that’s when I started watching K dramas. And then I didn’t go. I didn’t go to any other countries. I stayed here and I learned tech and I learned how to code and I got into tech. Yeah. So that’s how I got into the culture. But I kept on listening to Korean music, watching K dramas. J dramas too. I love J pop, love J dramas. Thai dramas. I love Thai dramas. So I kept up with the cultures. And then once I made enough money, I was like, I’m going to go. And so that’s how I got into my Korean sphere.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, it’s great. I know. I. I think I love that for you that, like, you were able to. To go and spend time there and figure that stuff out. Like, life’s maddening sometimes, right? Like. Yeah. Like the pace of change. Right. Like, you were talking about AI And I love the constant learning, but it can be stressful, you know, especially if it, like, for you, it impacts your. Your job in certain ways, although, you know, in other ways. Opportunities to learn, to teach, you know, as well. Right. So that’s always great too.

Nyasha Green:
Yeah, I love learning. Like, I want to learn the rest of my life. Like. Like, I’m learning. I’m still learning Korean.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah.

Nyasha Green:
I’m learning the bass guitar that’s back there. I’m moving everybody again. So it’s stuff everywhere. But my bass guitar. I play at least once a day. So, yeah, my mind’s constantly going. But you’re right. I would love another. I feel like that’s why it’s only been a month. I need to go back. I need to go to Korea or Tokyo. I’m supposed to go to Japan next year, but we’ll see.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, Yeah, I. I’m. I’ve been. I have no plans to go back quite yet, but I would like to go back one day. It’s just like I said, it. It’s for certain people. Like, I thought it was crazy. And then I found this book that somebody wrote, like, about like that. Yeah, I. It was like. I think the title is like this. This autistic woman went to Japan and you won’t believe what happened next, basically. But it was just about autism and going to Japan. And I was like, oh, my God, I can relate to this so hard. And I was just like. It was just so funny how different again, these different experiences. Same as you. Like, you hear it and then you’re like, oh, my God, that’s it. Like, it’s.

Nyasha Green:
Yeah.

Carl Alexander:
You know, and it’s. It’s not often. It doesn’t always make sense. Right. Like, why wouldn’t. Like I said, it defies logic sometimes. Like, why would an extrovert person want to go somewhere they can’t talk to anyone? It’s just like. There’s just this. This weirdness to it. But what would you like to learn next? Like in tech, like, if you could learn anything right now, like, you know, like, what would you learn?

Nyasha Green:
Python. So I could really dive into machine learning. AI really is, you know, depending on who you talk to. It’s like, oh, my God, this is so horrible. And I get that. I get like, the. Especially the environmental impacts again, like, the job loss. I have a friend that was working in advertisement and she made like a quarter million dollars a year. I think I’m doing that math right.

Carl Alexander:
Would be 250,000.

Nyasha Green:
Yes. Thank you. So she made about that much. I hope she doesn’t. Hope she’s okay with me telling people. I didn’t say which friend. So, yeah, she lost her job to AI and, like, they straight up told her, like, we’re running advertisement off AI, we’re downsizing to like one advertising specialist, and you’re going. And she’s never been able to find another job, like, near making what she was making. And she lives in New York City, so it’s AI, I think, is the next thing for me, not for everybody, but for me to step into AI. So if I could learn Python, which I. I learned Python years ago, I learned basic Python. So if I can get great at Python, that’s what I want. That’s what I want, to dip into more Python. What about you? What about you?

Carl Alexander:
What about me? I’ve been playing a lot with AI too, but I’m. I actually had to do a consulting gig like last Friday, actually, to teach, to talk to, like, AI skeptic, like, director of engineering and.

Nyasha Green:
Oh, cool.

Carl Alexander:
I. I don’t think I need to learn Python. I’m not, I’m not. I don’t think I need to go that close to the LLMs to learn Python.

Nyasha Green:
Gotcha.

Carl Alexander:
I will say one of the things that I. I’ve found energizing with AI, personally, I heard it. This is not from me, but I heard it. It’s one of those things, you hear it and it sticks in your head. Right. Like, one of the things with AI, and I don’t know if it’s been your experience as well, it made it more fun to be a beginner again.

Nyasha Green:
Yes. Oh, definitely. Definitely.

Carl Alexander:
Like, I was, like, thinking about that and I was like, that’s so true. Like, especially now that I’m starting to have a bit more of a workflow. Like, I don’t vibe just for people listening, that aren’t necessarily super keen on AI. Most people think of AI around what they call vibe coding, which is basically you type something in and then it will generate code and you will accept this code, this code as it is. You will not look at it. You will accept it, and if it works, it works. If it doesn’t, you tell her it doesn’t work to fix it, but you never look at it. So that’s why I do more like AI assisted coding, which Is like I have it do stuff like more as a pair programmer.

Nyasha Green:
Yeah.

Carl Alexander:
And yeah, because it’s pair programming, you’re basically pair programming with a junior.

Nyasha Green:
It is. I didn’t think of it like that.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah. So one of the challenges that, one of the things that I think people don’t realize when you start thinking about it like that is that you should be leveraging it, at least for me at my skill level. What I want is the pair programming experience. So I have this tool that I’ve been playing with now called Open Code, which is basically like an open source version of CLAUDE code. But you can bring in your own model basically so you can connect your CLAUDE subscription or whatnot. And what’s cool with this model is that it fits more my mental space around AI. So I would say I have three things I want around AI. I want three modes of operations. I have what I, I label discussion mode, which is like, basically I don’t actually want you to tell me any code things like don’t generate code for me. Like, I just want, I’m explaining to you a problem I might have and I want to have a back and forth. And that mode actually is the one that, this mode of operation is the one that resonates the most with advanced developers. Because for me, I work on my own, right? Even for the director of engineering like that I was talking to on Friday, like if you’re an advanced person, it’s very hard to have good discussions with peers, right? Like even in, in your company they’re working, you’re working during meetings, you’re in meetings, it’s hard to have like a sit down where you can be like, I have this problem, I want to talk with a peer about like, oh, I’m thinking about doing this. What do you think? And it’s like back and forth, like healthy debate. Like, I want pushback. Yes, I want pushback. I want to, like, I want, like, I don’t want you to blindly accept what I’m telling you. Like I want some pushback and what’s not. And then that’s a part that a lot of people resonate to when they’re experienced. Because like this director of engineering basically was a bit older than me, but I’ve been coding for about as long, like for about since the same age. Like I started coding around six, seven years old. So like I’ve been coding for almost 40 years, right. So yeah, it’s insane, right? So like I, I’ve almost programmed. I, I might have been programming before I learned English.

Nyasha Green:
That is so cool.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah. So I’d have to rethink through everything. But I think I started program before I learned English. So just to give an idea of timescale to people and I’ve been like speaking English since I’m a kid, so. But when you’ve been working that long, it’s more that stuff that matters, right? Like you’re a director, you’re in meetings all the time. You don’t really, you can’t talk to your employees or you don’t you maybe you work at night and everybody’s home. Like it’s hard to have that kind of discussion. So like that’s the one that I found like even the most skeptical people could relate to in some way because it’s very hard to have these discussions even in big companies. Even if you work at Shopify or like what name your biggest tech company. You’re like working at your cubicle, you’re doing this, maybe you can chat a bit at coffee. But if you need to have a longer discussion where you’re like, I’m trying to architecturally. So yeah, that’s always been something I thought was really important for me was that AI mode. But yeah, I think I would learn Go. Like if we want to do languages, I would learn Go. Ooh, Go is the one that comes up the most for me. Like I just feel I want to try it, I want to see what it does. Like it’s a multi purpose language. Use a bit like Python, but most of, yeah, Python at this point, most people use it just for like LLM stuff and like AI and data sciences and all that work. But you can do some of that in Go. But go, you can write CLI tools. There’s like web servers written in Go. There’s like, you know, you can write a wide range of things. So. But I still like PHP a lot. I’m like, I’m a big PHP fan.

Nyasha Green:
So I have a love hate relationship with php. It’s paid my bills for a bunch of years. I can’t hate it.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, no, that’s okay. You’re not, you’re allowed. I, I just, I. There’s just something about it, like the simplicity of it. You know, like you can deploy, you can, you, you know, the, the whole. I listened to a podcast with DHH and he called it like Programmer ergonomics. You know, like just you can FTP, you can FTP a file. I mean it’s some. At this stage it can be more complex than that, but you can like STP in And just edit the file and save and then refresh the page and it’s there. There’s no build system, there’s no this and that.

Nyasha Green:
Like, when you put it like that, you know what? Yeah, I’m not showing PHP the appreciation it deserves. Honestly, when you put it like that.

Carl Alexander:
I’m like, yes, no, but it’s like, it’s okay. Like, you’re like, he was, he was talking a lot about it in the context of Ruby and you know what? He sold me a bit on Ruby and Rails and trying it out. Like, I was just like, okay, okay, I see why you love this so much. But I think the cool thing with AI was what I said is like, I feel more confident to just do that now. Like, I’m just like, oh, cool. Like, you know, I’ll learn some stuff. Like, AI will help me for some stuff when I’m blocked. Like, it’s just like so good for that. But yeah, no, I was, I was really curious because, yeah, everything’s changing, so I’m always curious what, what people are interesting, interested in learning. It sounds like you’re really diving really into like the, the AI stuff. Like that’s where you want to, that’s where you want to be.

Nyasha Green:
Yeah, I want to make my life easier. I feel like I am an overthinker. You know, we talk a lot about thinking everything I’m building these days is just to make things easier for myself. Like I, I use Loom a lot because I teach a lot. And at my job, like my full time, my main full time job, I’m a project manager. I’m website project manager. So I’m head of website. And so every single person in the company and the clients that have a website problem, I have to explain it to them. And a lot of the times, because I’m a visual learner, I like to send looms. But I don’t. I’m not paying for the Loom premium because I’m cheap. So, yeah, last night I started building my own Loom alternative. I was like, I already pay all this money for Google Cloud extra Google Cloud Storage. Like, I’m just going to like build it. So I almost built my own loom where I could just send videos to the cloud and link it to people. I’m like, here, here you go. Look at this.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, that’s amazing. So I mean, that’s like part of the place where vibe coding makes the most sense. Like, you like want a little app for yourself that you just. It works, it does what it needs to do and then I’m never touching it again.

Nyasha Green:
You know, Like, I just, I can’t quite buy code. Like, I like how you put it as pair programming. I feel like when I’ve done that in the past, I’m like, hey, yeah, give me this, give me this device I want to make. It’s not, it’s never what I want exactly. Like, it’s just going to. Of course, if you’re prompting and saying like, oh, I’m like, make me a loom alternative, I might, I might get something. Like, I can’t have any, I don’t know any examples in the past that I can think of off the top of my head. But I’ll be like, hey, can you code this or give me this? And it’ll give me like just the, the interface, it’s not working like how I wanted it or yeah, it’s like the opposite. The interface is like trash. So I want to buy a code. I feel like, oh my God, that would be great. But I’m, I’m with you. I got a pair program. I need to see what’s happening. And also I don’t want to lose my little bit of coding. I feel like I’ve been losing so much coding knowledge.

Carl Alexander:
That’s like the number one when I talk to or I listen to really advanced developers that avoid any sort of AI assisted tool. That is one of the most common things that they say is that they’re scared to lose their edge because like, it’s a. The same thing happens when we become an engineering manager or something like that. You code less so you lose your project manager. Yeah, engineer manager, project manager. I’ve been there. Like, that’s the reason I quit that whole thing and went on my own is because I was going to go up that ladder and I was just like, I like programming, I just want to keep doing programming. And like we talked in the workism thing, that whole engineering track didn’t exist in the early 2000s, uh, and, or even early 2000s. Like Google was just like starting to like shape it. So if you were promoted as a programmer, you just did more management. And it was just like, I, I really don’t want to do that. Like, I want to write code and I still want to write code. So I wanted to use AI in a way that I felt like the pair programming for me made the most sense. This kind of pair programming setup, because you don’t lose your edge. Yes, there’s more code reviewing, but you still write some code. Like I’D say, like, I don’t need to write 20 tests myself. You know, I can have it write 20 tests, all the tests for me, and then I can review them, clean it up, do that. Like, I don’t. I’m not losing my edge, like, by not writing tests. Like, if anything, I told people that’s probably the best use of AI right now is, like, it will write tests. Developers never want to write tests. It will write the test for you. Like, they might not do the best job at it, but, you know, you can argue that too many bad tests is bad, but I think too many. Having some tests over none is always the better option. And it helps you do that.

BobWP:
And.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, but. Yeah. So we’re almost out of time here and I’ve. I wanted to ask if there’s anything else you wanted to share or where could people can find you, like, your course, when it’s going to come out, like your AI course?

Nyasha Green:
Yeah, you can find me@naishagreen.com, you can find me on LinkedIn @ Aisha Green, and that’s also where you can find my courses. I have my AI course and it’s going to relate to H. All you have to know is HTML. If you know HTML or if you’ve dabbled in it.

Carl Alexander:
That’s great.

Nyasha Green:
Yeah. Come on out and I’m going to teach you AI. And after every course, I give you a project to put on your portfolio or to take and build something else with. So if you want to do your first AI project, I will be more than happy if you do it with me. So find me on LinkedIn. I’ll give my information to Carl. I don’t know. Can you put it in, like, show notes?

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, yeah, Bob will take that.

Nyasha Green:
I’ll give that information.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, Bob will take care. Put that in the show notes. Same with the Workism podcast. It was a really great discussion between. And. Yeah. So it was great to have you. I’ve. Hopefully we’ll have you again maybe once the course is out and then you can officially talk about it instead of like in. In shady innuendo. Because, I mean, it makes a lot. It makes a lot of sense, right? Why LinkedIn doesn’t want that. But it’s like, you know, you’re like, kind of tiptoeing around, like, what you want to talk about. So it’s.

Nyasha Green:
Yeah.

Carl Alexander:
You know, once it’s out, we’ll be able to have you and you can like, be like, okay, this is it. This is what I can talk about now. Like, yes, please, let’s do this, because.

Nyasha Green:
I’m very excited about it.

Carl Alexander:
Yeah, that’s great. Well, it was great having you on Nye. And we’ll see you again soon. Thanks again.