WordPress Hosting and Public Relations Simplified

BobWP: Hey Adam, welcome to this show and how are you doing today?

Adam: Doing well, sir. Good morning. It is early here in California, but I am excited to be on Do the Woo. Let’s do this woo.

BobWP: All right. Yeah. Well, everyone, this is a Friday show. This is the D Show. D Show with all sorts of cool stuff we’re talk about. And yes, I remember those days in that time zone, and they are past me, so I am relieved by that. But I know you have something on your mind. Before we get into that, for those that don’t know you, just tell a little bit about your background.

Adam: Well, I was born on… No, let’s not go back that far. I come from the world of education, always been a bit of a nerd. I was a teacher, I was actually a technology coordinator at a large public charter school for a number of years. And while being in education, technology was a big part. I helped the school district with some of their hosting issues and how to handle some of these things. And then I went from that to being a school principal. I was a vice principal, then a school principal. We were up in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, which is just an ugly, ugly place. That is not true.

It was an incredible place. And I was there for four years. We did some really neat things, some big projects, big building project, grew the school, all kinds of things. And then off in the distance I saw that little thing that some people on this podcast might be aware of, little thing called burnout, was peeking over the hilltop. And I said, “Ah, I’m too young for this.” I don’t know what too old or too young. But instead of continuing on, we’re in a privileged space that my wife and I and our three kids, we sold the house. Most of our stuff bought this cool motor home. And I joke around that we drove around the country while my kids were still young enough that they liked me, but old enough that they would remember it. And we did it all during the pandemic, which made it much more interesting. We did a lot more outside National Park type of things, which it was an incredible time on that road trip. Started a company, and this was really before I jumped back into WordPress. And so Bob, is this a safe space?

BobWP: It’s a safe space. Yeah, it is.

Adam: I have a confession. I did start a small company and I really didn’t have the time to get back my brain around WordPress. And we started the website using Squarespace. That hurts me to say, but I’m feeling better. My shoulders getting that off of my chest, Bob.

BobWP: Yeah, it’s confession time.

Adam: So, I was renting that sight and I feel bad about that, I chagrined, and it won’t happen again, I promise. But that was a school marketing company to help schools stay top of mind in their marketing. And then I got ahold of my friend Jonathan after we landed back Jonathan Woolf. You may have heard about him.

BobWP: Yeah, he hangs around here some.

Adam: Can’t get rid of that guy. Good friend. He was actually on my school board. He was one of my school board members. We go way back, we played lots of Polytopia and games together. But I said, Jonathan, “Hey, I’ve got this company. I need some help with sales. In sort of heading back into being a principal, I need to get this thing figured out.” And instead of him helping me, he’s like, “Hey, I think I have something that I can have you sell, and you’ll learn how to do it all in that.” And that’s when I got involved in Post Status. You may also be familiar with Post Status.

And fairly early on in my Post Status experience, I came on to help Cory and the team at Post Status with their sponsorships and partnerships and helping to grow Post Status. It’s been an incredible, I still am at Post Status helping. I’m in the Slack there going to events and things like that. And during that, that’s when I met you. Cory invited us to beautiful Oklahoma in February, which was an interesting time of year to go to Oakland, but that’s when you and I got to meet the first time.

BobWP:
Yeah, that was great. I have fond memories. That was a wonderful event and stuff. So yeah, we got to know each other, and you may regret it months down the road, but so far so good.

Adam: So far so good. We’ll take it.

BobWP:
Now, I know you have something hanging on your mind, but I do want to mention one thing. Someday you will have to talk to Judy. My better half because she was in the education for many, many years, taught everything from first grade to gifted to elementary to university. So, I’m sure you could share some more stories and she eventually got out of that long story behind that. But yeah, can totally relate was involved with many things to the school districts and various stuff after we got married. But let’s talk about what’s on your mind.

Adam: Well, I have a lot on my mind coming up very quickly is a talk that I’m going to be doing at CloudFest USA. The talk is going to be June 2nd, that’s a Friday, but CloudFest is at the end, the very end of May, the beginning of June. That’s going to be in Austin this year, and I believe it’s the first time they’ve had it back in the US for several years. So, this is kind of their big, “Hey, we’re back.” And I am going to be doing a keynote on that Friday. It’s a 40-minute keynote. We’re talking about this question that I imagine I’m not the only one who has this question. How do you pick a good host in 2023? Because there’s a couple of options, at least a couple. How many options do you think that there are in hosting?

BobWP: Yeah, I’ve been going through some thoughts myself on that and always going, and it’s really, that’s a good question because I don’t really broadly think of dozens. I think of hosting in the sense of managed hosting and then I think of hosting in the sense of being on wordpress.com. I mean, which is kind of managed hosting too. I mean, I think of those two, but then I go off in other directions just because I’ve been around it so long and go off into the enterprise, down to the really basic thing that people don’t need managed WordPress because they’re maybe not even using WordPress. So, there’s a lot, but I’m sure they can be encapsulated in two kinds.

Adam: There’s a lot of options. I was sitting in a room a while back with parents at my kid’s school. This may be something our audience can relate to that because someone at your kid’s school might know that, “Hey, you’re in that whole internet thing, you might be able to help us with our new website.” So, as volunteering to help launch the school’s new website, and we’re sitting around, they’re all volunteers and everyone’s… It’s this interesting thing because we’re all volunteers. We have nothing to prove except everyone’s wanting to let the other people know that they know what they’re talking about. I don’t know if you’ve experienced this and the question of where is this website going to be hosted on that came up.

And I have some opinions on that, and some of the other people in the room had some different opinions. I disagreed with them. And I came to this realization that on what basis do I have to disagree with this person who has a fair amount of knowledge and experience with hosting? How do you disagree with someone on what host to pick for what purpose? And is there a matrix? Is there a way to help you make that decision? And that was one of the struggles of how do we pick host? There’s some interesting things happen. Bob, are you fully familiar with Project Bedrock by any chance?

BobWP: No, I’m not. I know you mentioned that. I’m kind of interested in hearing more about that. You gave me a little teaser, but…

Adam: I’ll give you a little teaser. It’s happening right now. There’s discussion on the wordpress.org, Slack in the hosting channel there, and there’s some discussion. I’m actually going to be meeting with the wonderful Jess Frick later today. She is one of the reviewers of Project Bedrock. She works at Pressable, and right now, if you go to wordpress.org/hosting, it’s a pretty basic page. And if someone who is interested in learning about choosing a host, if they go there right now, I don’t feel that there would be a lot of help on how do you pick a host? There’s a few hosting companies picked, there is a little bit of a description at the bottom for what if people also want to be listed there, but I went there looking for some guidance and I didn’t get any. Then this Project Bedrock comes, I think in WordCamp Europe.

There was last year there was some discussion about this and it got some momentum essentially, as I understand it, and this is probably one of those times where if you say something wrong, you’ll get lots of comments back. So, Bob expects for me to say something incorrect, and then that’s when the exciting discussion happens. But as far as I can tell, this is an effort to help people do exactly what I was doing in that room at my kids’ school. How do we pick a host? On what basis do we choose this very important part of our presence on WordPress, on the internet, you need a host that is going to fit your criteria. And there are a number of things that Project Bedrock, I believe is trying to tackle. And it’s kind of the big pillars of what would make for a good WordPress hosting experience.

And of course, there’s going to be things such as price, but then security and where those hosting centers are and what type of technology they’re using, what are they doing five for the future. That’s also listed there, I read on Project Bedrock. And so, there’s these things that will help people make decisions because, “Hey, I’m an agency and we have these big clients, and they have these needs and price isn’t the most important thing. We need uptime and security and those types of elements,” or “I’m just getting started. I’ve got a couple of nickels to rub together, but that’s about it.” And I just need something that works, or I don’t really know much about hosting someone that’s going to help walk me through that customer service is a really big part of their offering in this industry.

And Bob, maybe you can correct me if I’m wrong, we don’t have a Kelley Blue Book that you’d have for vehicle. There’s a Kelley Blue Book, there’s an organization, Edmunds is different ones that will help you navigate choosing a car. Who do we go to help us choose a host? And that’s a big question.

BobWP: Yeah, and I think you’re right. It’s getting this, I mean, I can think back of 2007 or 2008 when I started actually doing a little bit more on the web and I was dabbling in WordPress after I discovering it in 2006. And all those years have, especially when I was doing design, it’s like now I kind of step back away from when people say, “What host do I use?” Because one is that I know a lot of hosts, two is I don’t chop around a lot and know all the pieces and parts, so I’m not the most qualified these days back then. It’s getting that, I want to say tunnel vision of people to focus on a resource like this versus all the crazy prejudice, all the crazy external noise around hosting. And that’s where it confuses people. I mean, they start to get in when they found and this is the little information that helps me, but now I got to go over here, and I got to go to this Facebook group, and I got to go in here and I just got to start asking people.

And then they’re surrounded by external chaos basically, because everybody’s saying, “Oh, I use this, I use this. No, I use this one. That one sucks. This one sucks too, but I use this one.” So, there’s got to be this more critical thinking behind just other people’s opinions because experiences are different when you figure each one of these hosting companies has millions of customers at some point, some may have thousands, hundreds of thousands, but it’s getting them to, I don’t want to say block out that because there’s no way you’re ever going to do that, but to have a reliable source to really drill down and ask the questions without somebody coming and saying, “No, that’s not right, that’s not right. This isn’t the right one for you.” Well, why isn’t the right one for you? Because I had them for a year and they were terrible. It’s like, wait a minute, let’s take-

Adam: Anecdotal evidence.

BobWP: So that’s what my experience and I’m sure is still, I mean, I see that a lot of in groups the talk around that. So, there really does need to be exactly what you’re talking about.

Adam: Well, and that there’s been efforts to help people. Kevin Ohashi with Review Signal. So, when I found out that I was doing this talk, and again, this is a safe space, they really wanted Kevin to do the talk because Kevin is the guru and the guy that knows so much about this space. So, he runs Review Signal and I think on his site something 440,000 tweets that they have processed about reviewing hosting companies. And Kevin’s a little discouraged. He’s not able to make it to CloudFest. So, they asked me like, “Well, let me go talk to Kevin.” Kevin and I are in close contact. He is helping me build my talk because I want his expertise in this area, and he’s frustrated.

It’s difficult to be in a position where you are able to say, pick this hosting company over this hosting company, or this hosting company is reviewed better than this hosting company. It’s difficult to do that and remain untarnished without, because he doesn’t receive any money for that. So, he has Review Signal, and he is an incredible ethics where he is not going to take money from one hosting company or another to push them up. He is like, “No, this is the algorithm working. This is what’s happening from Twitter, and this is what is going on. These are the results.” And he has been approached by hosting companies and all that. And Kevin’s great. My admiration to him is he has made been strong, but he’s discouraged because this space has… There’s a lot of money in this space. And when you connect money with things like reviews, you don’t always get the purest of motives.

And one thing that was interesting is we discussed some companies that have maybe in the past gotten a bad name. GoDaddy is one that comes to mind where he was saying 10 years ago, they were doing some questionable marketing and earlier, and that’s been a long time, that’s been 10 years. They aren’t doing that anymore. But there may be this cloud kind of over them as, “Oh, it’s that company.” When do we forgive a company for doing the transgressions? They changed that. That’s not the GoDaddy you see today I’ve met some incredible, wonderful people at GoDaddy, Adam Warner being one of them. We have the same initials, when we were at WordCamp like Adam, Adam who? Adam W. Doesn’t help.

BobWP: Doesn’t help. Nope.

Adam: But as someone picking a hosting company, do you hold that against someone? There may be other things that happened more recently. And how do we make those judgements? And that’s some of the things that I’m going to get into during CloudFest is we have a problem. How do we pick a host? What I would love to see is a way that we can identify what our project is, or this is what the purpose of the website is going to be a fairly simple blog, it doesn’t need monetization, this, this, and this. And Shazam, you put that information in there and then out kind of spits, all right, here are the top five hosts that seem to best match your criteria and put them in no particular order. We don’t want to be king makers. We want to give people the best information to make their decisions as possible and not have their decisions be made on old advice or biased advice or reviews that maybe can’t be trusted or someone just has a hunch, “I like their logo better. They’re a better…”

BobWP: Yeah, because I like their colors. Yeah.

Adam: It’s pretty.

BobWP: Yeah. Yeah. I totally relate because when I wrote a lot of post tutorial type posts, I had sponsored post that were sponsored by companies. I actually stepped back from doing it for hosting because it was too much, and I just couldn’t do it. But my approach to it was basically somebody come and say, “I want you to do a review.” And I’d say, “I’m not doing a review. You’re paying me to simply walk through and do a tutorial on what your features are. I’m not here to rip it down. I’m not here to glorify it.” And I’m just here to say, “This is what it does. If this is what you’ve been looking for, great. Use it.” And that’s adamantly how I stuck to that to the end.

And the hosting was a little bit tougher because I told them, I said, I don’t feel like I can just keep going through features and all these different things and just confuse people. So, I just started turning down hosting companies saying that, “Yeah, I admire you, or maybe I use you, but that’s just not going to happen.” So, there is that trust and that not being taken in by false information out there. And it’s tough, especially for people that are just getting into it.

Adam: Yeah, it’s a tough nut to crack. And my cynical nature is, can Project Bedrock be successful? Can we actually have this matrix of decision-making in a way that isn’t biased, that doesn’t lead people down the wrong path, that money doesn’t… The idea that money doesn’t get involved and then tarnish that the same time we are in a free market and advertising and companies telling their story is a really important part of how this all works.

BobWP: Exactly. Yeah. I used to say this was a terrible thing to say, and maybe this is one of those quiet things to say-

Adam: Yeah, quietly.

BobWP: Yeah. But I actually admire people that go into hosting. I mean, people have worked support, all that stuff, but I just don’t think I have the guts to get into it. And I admire people that do, and I admire companies that started, and we have some sponsors and we’ve had past sponsors that our host and I hear the story of them and it’s amazing everybody’s trying to just bring out a good product and there’s a lot of customers out there for everyone. So, speaking now, let’s kind of segue because this is really great because in a sense, we’re all looking at these hosting companies and the companies, a lot of people we talk to are using maybe a specific hosting company, or maybe they have three or four or whatever that they choose. They got to get into partnerships, and they create these partnerships. There’s other ways that, like you said, there is that point where they have to advertise. They have to sponsor. They sponsor this podcast, they sponsor other things, sponsor WordCamps.

BobWP: I know you have another idea of brewing and-

Adam: There’s another idea, right?

BobWP: Yeah, Adam is not starting a new hosting company, so-

Adam:I’m not doing that.

BobWP: But he does have another idea that I find very intriguing. It’s something close to me because it’s something that I’ve dealt with for probably the entire time I was in WordPress, and I know a lot of people this will resonate with them.

Adam: Well, and I promise this project will be on WordPress. And it will be hosted, and I’m doing my research. Where is it going to be hosted.

BobWP: Good, good.

Adam: Yeah. But here’s the problem that I see, and I just saw on that clock app, that Tiki-Toki app. A video came up where a large marketing agency said, we are no longer going to be doing Google Ads or Facebook ads for our clients, and this was a big deal. So, this is their announcement. We are no longer doing that. They’re not seeing the ROI for their clients, and they’re done. And the question is, “Well, what are you going to do? Video, all those kind of things, they’re really websites. They mentioned WordPress in this post that they are going to put a lot of effort into that for their clients. But here’s the other part is you have these ecosystems, you have these places where your customers are at, and there are, for lack of a better term, influencers, Bob, I got to say, you’re an influencer. You influence me, Bob.

BobWP: I don’t know what that exactly means-

Adam: I don’t know. That media personality, right? We need better terms, but there’s this in WordPress have I say that the pie is big enough for everybody. There really doesn’t need to be much competition, but what companies do need is exposure. They need people to know that they exist. And especially, as companies are coming into this WordPress ecosystem, they want people to know that they exist. Well, how do you do that? There’s not a storefront you can go to. You can’t put a billboard on the freeway and tell people about yourself or put an ad on TV or something. There’s a few ways that you can do that. One in a great way is sponsoring a WordCamp. And that’s a great way where you have your name and your logo up there, you’ve got a booth and you’re doing something good. You’re helping to make these events happen. We’ve got these three big WordCamps that happen around the world, and then there’s the regional, much smaller WordPress that continue to happen.

But in between that, what does a company that wants to grow their influence, they want exposure, they want people to know about them. They were launching a new product. How do you find out about them? Well, as this marketing company that I was hearing, if it’s not, “Hey, we’re going to do more Google Ads, if that’s not the direction we’re going, where is it?” And I argue that it is places like this where you have a dedicated group of people who are the, I’ll call them influencers of the influencers, people who really pay attention to this space here on Do the Woo. You have them on the WP Mayor, you have the minute, you have the tavern, you’ve got, of course, Post Status, which is near and dear to my heart, an incredible community at Post Status.

I talk about Post Status as it’s where the conversations are happening in between each of the WordCamps. The Slack on and Post Status is an incredible resource. And what I am seeing is companies coming into WordPress, they see, “Hey, that’s got they got 43% of the internet. We need our company to be there. How do people find out about us? What do we do?” They need a guide to help them navigate these WordCamps, but also these media personalities in WordPress, in this ecosystem, you have this core group of people that really care. I was talking to Rimkus, he actually… Do you know Rimkus?

BobWP: Oh, yeah. I’ve known him for years. Yeah.

Adam: He’s a great personality. He’s starting up his own podcasting network. He’s got a newsletter and he is generating an audience similar to what you’re doing here, where it’s like, “Hey, I’ve got something to say. People care about the things that I have to say. And we’re building a community around that.” And here is the opportunity. I’m like a friend of mine. We’re starting this company called Cirrus Influence. And what we want to do is help companies coming into WordPress know where the conversations are happening. If you get people to talk about you, that tends to be where the money flows, where the speaking goes, where the cot talking goes, where the money flows. I don’t know, there’s something-

BobWP: Yeah, something that rhymes.

Adam: Something that rhymes, and it’s very clever. And the other hand, there are these media companies, again, what you’re doing Post Status, the mayor, all these different companies, they need to have revenue in order to make content. That’s how it works. You can’t make content without that. So, that’s where sponsorships come in. And I’m so thankful for the sponsors that sponsor Do the Woo, that sponsor Post Status sponsor these different media outlets because we don’t get content like this unless people are willing to sponsor them. And I see there is a need that we can help companies get exposure in this space by, “Hey, we’ve got this new product launch, we want people to know about it. Let’s get people talking about it on these different channels.” And these channels have a dedicated following. But I would imagine that the people who are, that are listening to us right now, there may be a few that are brand-new, but a lot of them, this is part of their regular or weekly habits that this is their community. We are their people.

BobWP: One of the interesting things I find about it, and I think is very valid to have something like that is having done this for a long time, I mean when I started my podcast in 2016, I started to ride out of the gate with sponsors, which some people said, you’re insane. But I knew people in the space, they were willing to support me, and I just knew this is what I wanted to do. But I also, like you said, had to make a living. The one thing I do find that this can really help with is that I get a lot of… Not a lot, I shouldn’t say mean in the sense of sponsors coming to me, not really understanding what I do. What my audience is, and I do not… They may be ready to buy, but I’m not going to take their money because I know it isn’t the right fit.

Now, there’s other people, and I’m not saying any of the bigger media, but there could be people in this space that sometimes there’s that urge to pull somebody in when you still in your gut maybe thinking, “Is this a right fit? Well, let me give it a try.” And then it doesn’t turn well for you in the end, it doesn’t turn well for the sponsor. My point is that you get this touchpoint and not only… Okay, I have these influencers, I have these people that talk a lot. That’s more what I consider myself, but they have a specific audience. They have a specific style, they have an opportunities that maybe so-and-so doesn’t have opportunities for because of how they present their content.

Once you get in and talking to these clients, you can say, okay, now I know, no, they wouldn’t be good for Do the Woo, or they wouldn’t be good for whoever. And that is, that’s going to save the sponsors or the people that are willing to spend the money a lot of time. It’s going to save us time or anybody that is involved with it only for that reason, because it’s very hard to turn down money or turn down large amounts of money. But when your gut is telling you that this isn’t the right fit or what your expectations are when the… Sometimes these are some of the first things I ask the sponsor is, what’s your expectations? And I either have to slow them down or I know there’s, “Okay, this isn’t going to work out in the beginning. Probably shouldn’t go ahead and move ahead. I appreciate your interest.” There’s a need for it. And I think having a pulse on several different ones, and it’s like the buffet. You don’t like eggs, but this person does eggs.

Adam: Yeah. Well, and to me, there’s this interesting thing, and all media outlets deal with this of how do we maintain the editorial integrity of a media outlet as well as sponsorship or advertising. And I appreciate the conversations that you and I have had Bob around, “Okay, we’re going to work with this type of company, but we’re not going to work with that type of company because it’s not a good fit.” Your audience comes first, and without them, nothing else matters. You have to protect your audience and you have to be an audience advocate. And you do that really well, Bob, and I appreciate that. When I’m listening to do the, I know that I’m getting your unbiased opinion regardless of who your sponsor is. But you do unapologetically say, this podcast is sponsored by so-and-so, because we all know that in order for this content to exist, for these conversations to happen, we do need to keep the lights on.

So, we see on both ends, the companies need exposure. They need people to learn about them, to know that they exist and to help tell their story. You also need these media outlets to be able to make a living and to continue to build these communities and have these places where we can go to learn about WordPress, about what’s happening in our industry. And that’s one of the things I really appreciate. And specifically, WordPress, and of course, we’ve niched down here to WooCommerce, and this is a much needed resource. How many dollars are flowing through WooCommerce?

I mean, when you think about the size, the impact that has, and I don’t know anybody else really doing what you do, Bob. And that’s where if a company says, “Hey, WooCommerce is our thing, we’re wanting to make a big splash in WooCommerce.” And if they come talk to me or any of these other people and “Hey, where do I go to be a part of that conversation?” It’s a pretty easy answer. Talk to BobWP. Go on Do the Woo. This is where you want to be. And that’s how I see being able to offer as a service, getting to know these companies, what their goals are, getting to know media outlets like Do the Woo, and being a bit of a matchmaker saying, yeah, that’s where the conversations need to happen.

BobWP: And there’s a lot of companies, and I’ve gone through many discussions with companies that you touched on it that are really trying to get into the space. Maybe they are now doing products for WordPress, whatever the case may be. And a lot of them come in very haphazardly, and sometimes they almost can ruin their reputation by coming in too strong.

Adam: Oh, yeah.

BobWP: And I’ve had conversations with them. And I think the fact that if they know there’s… Or this piece of it, if there’s somebody that can kind of say, “Okay, let’s take a deep breath and let me tell you, because it really is more than just, I mean, there’s all these, myself and all the others. What we do, but it’s the entire community and the feel of the entire community and how people interact.” And so that whole plays into it too. And that’s what they’ve got to wrap their brains around because they’re getting into this open-source space that’s very unique from what they may have experienced in the regular business world, corporate, whatever.

Adam: Exactly. This ecosystem is built on the backs of volunteers. And people take that very seriously and rightly so. Going to a WordCamp is a much different experience than going to CloudFest. And those are not the same thing. CloudFest tickets, which you can still buy, it’s please come hear me talk. It’ll be great, I promise. But that’s a different purpose than what’s happening at WordCamps with their contributor days. And really the talks that happen are different than at other kinds of trade shows in other industries. And a company, you’re exactly right, can come in too strong and can capitalize the wrong P and get confused and suddenly be off-putting for a number of reasons. And I use that lightheartedly at the same time, there are norms and things that we want to protect about this community, and just coming in and throwing a bunch of money in and muscling your way is not the right way to make a splashing WordPress. It needs to be done carefully and thoughtfully. And some companies get it wrong.

BobWP: Exactly. Well, both wonderful topics. I mean, they kind of cross over in a nod sort of way because hosting, there’s still these partnerships and then there’s CloudFest USA.

Adam: Austin, Texas. It’s going to be a neat thing. I’m going to be doing lots of research between now and then. I’ve already learned so much. It’s going to be a fun talk, but definitely if you haven’t been to CloudFest before, it hasn’t happened in the US for a number of years. So, it’s back and I’m excited to be a part of that.

BobWP: Yeah. Well, if people want to kind of follow you, connect with you as far as your talks coming up, maybe they can hear a little bit more about it. They can hear about this new venture you have going on. What’s the best way for people to connect with you?

Adam: Well, one way I love to encourage you is if you aren’t in the Post Status, get them the Post Status Slack. It’s where great conversations are happening. That’s one of the places I love to hang out. And then you got the old LinkedIn and Twitter, which are never a bad option. So adamweeks610, you can find me there on the Twitters and on the LinkedIn’s. And yeah, just send me a pigeon or a… We can do smoke signals, whatever, however you want to talk to me.

BobWP: And if they have a long time, they can do a message in a bottle.

Adam: And a message in a bottle.

BobWP: Yeah, if time is not an issue.

Adam: Might take a minute. But yes, find me in the Post Status Slack. I still help Cory out there with partnerships, sponsorships over there. We use sponsorships here and I definitely enjoy this community and I believe that this community, it really rests on the backs of our media outlets on Post Status, Do the Woo, GitHub. All these ones that I could keep missioning, like there’s 15, 20 of them that they have a following and that is where the community really lives.

BobWP: Perfect. Alrighty. Well, Adam, it was wonderful as usual, having a conversation with you. And yeah, I appreciate you coming on.

Adam: Thank you, Bob. I appreciate it. It’s been fun.